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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Jan 12, 2010 - 12:49pm PT
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Slater, Healyje,
You guys really don't know what going one here, what we've done, who we've talked to etc. I know you're trying to help but this thread is really for the locals working on this issue.... It's not an attempt to gather unsolicited advice from people who don't know the what we've done, etc.
thanks,
kev
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 12, 2010 - 12:58pm PT
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Good luck.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 12, 2010 - 03:45pm PT
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Peregrines also seem to be thriving and breeding nesting on the Oracle Building in Redwood Shores off US 101. If that isn't a high human traffic area, what is?
Just to keep the pot boiling, this morning I emailed the following letter to the Editor of the San Jose Mercury News:
"I am writing to complain about the blanket closure of the Summit Rock climbing area in Sanborn-Skyline County Park by Santa Clara Parks District as part of their Trails Master Plan, which was ratified over a year ago. True, there are a pair of peregrines that are nesting on the rock, but as Professor Glenn Stewart of the UC Santa Cruz Predatory Bird Group points out, “falcons begin courtship in January, lay eggs in March, fledge young in June, and cease to defend the site sometime in July when the young have moved on.” Professor Stewart also calls County Parks closure “unprecedented” and thinks that the way to handle the problem should follow the standard practice used in other parks like Yosemite and Kings Canyon of re-opening Summit Rock to climbing from August to December when the peregrine breeding cycle is over. It seems to me that County Parks’ blanket year around closure of Summit Rock and environs is simply an expedient way of avoiding having to address the real problems at Summit Rock, which are caused by bottle throwing drunks who shower the place with broken glass after dark and by gangs that use spray paint to “tag” the rocks with graffiti. Climbers have in fact staged several successful weekend clean ups at Summit sponsored by such groups as REI and BayAreaClimbers.com and, it seems to me, should not be penalized for what other lawless individuals are doing out there in the evening when County Parks in not patrolling the area. Summit Rock has been a popular Bay Area climbing destination for over forty years and, hence, is an important recreational resource in Santa Clara County."
At least, now it's a matter of public record. It also increases the likelihood that some reporters will start asking County Parks some uncomfortable questions. Perhaps, the Press and the Access Fund Summit Rock Working Group can all accompany Prof. Stewart when he makes his tour of the nesting site at Summit this spring? The more, the merrier!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 12, 2010 - 04:23pm PT
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You guys can go on kidding yourselves about urban Peregrine behavior and survival rates or you could actually talk to 'Professor Glenn Stewart' who could explain about how Peregrines are stressed in urban and wild settings and the results. As it is, you're talking bullshit and it isn't going to help your case. Over and way out.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jan 12, 2010 - 04:33pm PT
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As it is, you're talking bullshit and it isn't going to help your case. Over and way out.
In general, that is probably the case. I'm just saying that it's a frickin' fact that SOME Peregrines have become accustomed to nesting in cities on buildings. San Jose City Hall has a freakin' camera setup to so every year people can monitor the falcon chicks progress.
It comes back every year! Apparently the named her Clara (as in Santa Clara county).
http://sanjose.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?publish_id=91
http://www2.ucsc.edu/scpbrg/falconcameraSJ.htm
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Jan 12, 2010 - 04:45pm PT
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Not sure about Peregrines, but I see some sort of Hawk all the time right next to freeways and highways just about every week.
are these cooper hawks and not peregrines?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 12, 2010 - 04:59pm PT
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Yes, they nest in urban settings, such as the SJCH and Oracle HQ, but note the pics - they're both boxed nests on secluded roof top ledges. Peregrines are totally visual creatures and hunt by sight against whatever visual background their environment presents. That means they visually and territorially/defensively adapt to that background and the visual movement it contains - i.e. human vehicular and pedestrian ground traffic at a distance. That in no way means they are comfortable with humans in close proximity with their eyries. Peregrines in wild settings are not adapted to the same level of background movement or human presence and will definitely be highly defensive / stressed by humans in close proximity to their nests. And again, the urban Peregrines have lousy survival rates. Last year our two chicks on the I-5 bridge ended up drowning in the river when they tried to fledge and wouldn't have made it if boaters hadn't fished them out and turned them over to the Audubon.
Believe me, I'm on your side here, and would love to climb there if I were down in SC surfing. You just need to get your messages lined up with facts and consistently stick with them.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 12, 2010 - 05:34pm PT
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I have talked to Professor Stewart and he is going to visit Summit this spring with our Access Fund Summit Rock Working Group. He tells me that there is absolutely no reason whatsoever that Summit shouldn't be open for climbing from August to December period. This is the protocol used in Yosemite and Zion and recommended by the UC Santa Cruz Predatory Bird Group, which Prof. Stewart heads. They are the ones who install the boxes and do the monitoring at Oracle and the SJ City Hall sites. Obviously, the answer is to leave the peregrines alone at Summit from Feb. 1 to July 31. Then, they won't get stressed. The peregrine issue at Summit is merely a pretext being used by Santa Clara County Parks to shut the area down to climbing period. Getting a wildlife biologist like Prof. Stewart to endorse a sane policy at Summit (which he does) is the best way possible to force County Parks to re-open Summit to climbing during the late summer and fall when the peregrines are not nesting there.
Another important point to remember is that County Parks closed Summit without consulting a wildlife biologist. As usual, they did just what they wanted to do, which is to construct an argument for limiting (i.e. 'managing') climbing along Skyline Boulevard, probably under pressure from the South Skyline Property Owners Association and, possibly, the Semperverins Fund big whigs. When in doubt, look for the MONEY.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 12, 2010 - 07:23pm PT
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Oh, and these comments to the Santa Clara Board of Supervisors on the Sanborn County Park 2008 Trails Master Plan don't sound like they're from someone out to shut climbing down at Summit Rock.
And here is some of the verbage in the Master Trails Plan governing the park's own trail construction activities relative to nesting raptors:
Sanborn County Park Trails Master Plan April 2008
Mitigation Measure BIO-3:
Nesting Migratory Birds:
All vegetation clearing, including trimming of shrubs or trees will take place outside the migratory bird nesting season (March 1 - July 31). If vegetation removal must occur during the nesting season, a survey for nesting migratory birds will occur within five days prior to the start of clearing or construction activities. Every attempt will be made to ensure completion of the vegetation clearing and trimming activities within the five-day period. If more than five days elapse between the initial nest search and the beginning of construction activities, another nest survey will be conducted. If any active nest(s) are detected, all vegetation clearing activities will be suspended and a 50-foot radius buffer established. All vegetation clearing activities within 50-feet of the active nest(s) will take place after the nest(s) are no longer active and chicks have fledged. CDFG generally accepts a 50-foot radius buffer around passerine and non-passerine land bird nests; however the County natural resource staff shall have flexibility to reduce or expand the buffer depending on the specific circumstances.
Nesting Raptors:
All vegetation clearing, including trimming of shrubs or trees, and/or construction activities, will take place outside the raptor-nesting season (February 1- July 31). If such activities must occur during the raptor-nesting season, all suitable raptor-nesting habitat within 500 feet of the impacted area will be surveyed for active raptor nests. If an active raptor nest is located within 500 feet of the construction area, a no-activity buffer of 250 feet will be erected around the nest while it is active to protect the nesting raptors. Every attempt will be made to protect trees and nests that contain active raptor nests. CDFG generally accepts up to a 250-foot buffer radius for raptors, however, the County natural resource staff, in consultation with CDFG, may have flexibility to reduce or expand the buffer depending on the specific circumstances such as for nests not within the line of sight of construction activity.
Implementation: Qualified County Natural Resource Staff or Qualified Consulting Biologist
Timing: During the construction phase of the project
Monitoring: County Parks Staff
The county's Parks and Natural Resource staff are clearly queuing off of CDFG mandates and guidelines relative to biological resource management.
Gavin Emmons at Pinnacles would also be a good [federal] resource.
Gavin Emmons / Excerpt from the 2008 Pinnacles Raptor Breeding Season Report:
...A peregrine falcon pair successfully nested and fledged 3 young in the Hawkins territory, marking the 4th consecutive year that a successful Peregrine falcon nesting effort has been documented at Pinnacles in the last 50 years.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 13, 2010 - 02:58am PT
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Except when the Master Plan was ratified, County Parks ignored all of Arnie Wernick's comments about separate trails for mountain bikers, equestrians and dog walkers. And the Rangers are still regularly covering climber "volunteer" trails with vegetation. Just ask anyone who's visited the Tree in the Wall bouldering area further south. In fact, the Master Plan authorized dog walking on almost all the trails in Sanborn Skyline County Park. It also opened up almost 28 miles of new trail to mountain biking (much to the horror of the State Park authorities across the road in Castle Rock SP).
Ask anyone who's climbed up there: all of the agencies (State Parks, County Parks, MROSD) are openly hostile to climbers as a user group. If they weren't, they'd ban access to Summit Rock only during the Peregrine nesting, breeding and fledging seasons from January to the end of July and not enforce a year round closure. As Prof. Steward pointed out to me, such a blanket closure is "unprecedented" and does not conform to standard practices in Yosemite or Zion or anywhere else for that matter.
Prof. Stewart will ultimately recommend the course of action the Access Fund Summit Rock Group will take in dealing with County Parks.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 13, 2010 - 03:35am PT
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Bruce,
I posted Arnie's comments to show that not everyone in an official capacity in the area is hostile to climbers; that his suggestions weren't acted upon likely had way more to do with the fact they were submitted six days before the final vote after a public multi-year planning process for the project.
Look, you guys can take an advesarial 'the-whole-world-is-all-against-us' stance in all this but trust me, whether it's true or not, it's going to do absolutely zero for your cause when dealing with those organizations. And when you talk about 'big whigs' and 'MONEY' you just come off sounding like a conspiracy theorist. If you think MROSD, SSA, Sempervirens Fund, CSP, Santa Clara Parks, etc. are really out to get climbing, then step up, or have the AF step up, and formally ask each of those organizations for their official stance on climbing at CRSP and Sanborn - don't dick around wringing your hands over 'they this' and 'they that' - get it in writing from each and every one of those organizations. It's all spray if it isn't in writing.
With regard to the Peregrines specifically, Stewart will be a great resource, as would Gavin Emmons, but the 2008 Trails Master Plan (TMP) Document I referenced in the post above (fixed that link) clearly shows that Santa Clara County is fully aware of those Feb-Jul raptor closure dates (from CDFG) - hell, they've got those dates in the 2008 TMP to govern their own trail construction activities. You don't really need Stewart or Emmons as you can point to the County's very own documents for those dates and the CDFG authority from which they derive. From the Sanborn County Park 2008 TMP:
All vegetation clearing, including trimming of shrubs or trees, and/or [trail] construction activities, will take place outside the raptor-nesting season (February 1- July 31).
And if you want an authoritative source that will actually carry weight with CSP and Santa Clara County, then use Carie Battistone (CDFG Raptor Biologist / CBattistone @ dfg.ca.gov) or the head of her department, Dale Steele (CDFG Environmental Program Manager / DSteele @ dfg.ca.gov) - those are the ones you should be contacting (let them know you're also talking with Stewart) - but again, Santa Clara County's own 2008 TMP references those closure dates. Use it!
P.S. Also, according to the CRSP's General Plan, it is supposed to have developed a Climbing Management Plan (CMP), if they never bothered to develop one it's their problem - formally ask for a copy of the CMP, even if one doesn't exist. It should give you guys and the AF an opportunity to get involved in that park in a more formal way.
P.P.S. And last, I understand Miles Standish was a complete dick, but if all those organizations are against climbers then there's more to the story than just Miles. Be willing to hear whatever gripes or beefs they have against climbers on an organization-by-organization basis and be prepared to address those concerns.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 13, 2010 - 03:08pm PT
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We've been on the receiving end for years. State Parks, County Parks and MROSD have all made their anti-climber opinions well known since way back in 1996.
But our actions and behavior toward County Parks are now under the auspices of Paul Minault and the Access Fund, who've given us their full support. We're focused now on just this one point: Summit Rock is now closed year around when it should in fact by closed only during raptor breeding, nesting and fledging season from January to late July. That's it.
You don't think representatives of any climbers' organization were invited to any of those meetings surrounding the Trails Master Plan, do you? Sure climbers have a lot of gripes, but right now everyone is doing their best to do it by the book by focusing on this one issue and not deviating one inch until it's resolved. The Castle Rock Climbing Management Plan, which has been sitting in limbo for the past 12 years, is a whole other kettle of fish, however.
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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Jan 13, 2010 - 03:17pm PT
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I'd bet that this closure has nothing to do with the raptor, and more to do with Ca cutting funding for the park.
Hold on Castle Rock.. the main area may be next!!!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 13, 2010 - 03:21pm PT
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We've been on the receiving end for years. State Parks, County Parks and MROSD have all made their anti-climber opinions well known since way back in 1996.
Formally? I'd be curious to know in what written, policy or regulatory form (besides this closure) [by each of those orgs].
You don't think representatives of any climbers' organization were invited to any of those meetings surrounding the Trails Master Plan, do you?
They had public meetings posted throughout the process, but I don't have a lot of illusions around how much impact public comments would have had. Again, use their own documented awareness of the "raptor nesting season" dates to your advantage. Point out that they don't put a year-round prohibition on treework or construction by their own staff or contractors - so why climbers? Point out the phrase "raptor nesting season" and the dates in the 2008 TMP, and by all means be sure and do contact the CDFG biologists about the matter. Good luck...
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 13, 2010 - 06:50pm PT
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The record of anti-climber bias is too long to post here. I'm sure there's no official document with the policy set down in writing. But I have been informed by people who should know (privately of course) that the prejudice extends clear up to State Parks in Sacramento. That's why our Group and the Access Fund is starting out small: by addressing the blanket climbing closure at Summit. The Access Fund is behind us on this by the way.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 13, 2010 - 07:19pm PT
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In general, getting things in writing is what counts on the political side of accomplishing things - the spoken word and anecdotes are worthless, regardless of how real or true they are.
Definitely work the local issue, but any systemic Cali parks issues with climbing would best be dealt with by a combination of AF national / director-level resources, Fattrad-type climber-friendly political resources, and Malcolm Daly-type outdoor industry corporate resources working as a combined and coordinated whole.
It would probably be Paul's call to escalate the issue with AF if necessary. Kind of pointless of have all the Cali regional coordinators banging their heads against every park if there really is a systemic problem that needs to be dealt with.
Might also be worth talking to Fattrad about it and see if he has any resources in Sacramento.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 14, 2010 - 03:06am PT
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The whole Summit Rock blanket closure matter is on the desk (and originated down to the local level) from Joe Sambataro, national director of the Access Fund, who, in turn, contacted Paul Minault. Despite all the bitchin' and hearsay, this issue is being addressed in a very professional manner (for once!).
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 14, 2010 - 03:47am PT
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Bruce, glad to hear it. No problem with bitching among yourselves, you just want to keep it underwraps in public meetings and documents. Again, good luck to you all.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 22, 2010 - 05:35pm PT
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Yup, things are moving along. The Access Fund has been in touch with State Fish and Game. Something's going to happen someday.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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I've been loosely watching this thread for some time.
It's time for me to correct some misconceptions that have been repeated.
From September
The South Skyline Property Owners Association definitely does'nt like like people climbing at Castle, Indian and Summit. They're constantly raving about threats of arson and breaking and entering their property. Interesting too how Stu Langdoc, who used to be the self-appointed head of the so-called "Castle Rock Climbers Committee", is also on the board of directors of the SSPOA. Obviously, all those groups - State Parks, County Parks and the property association - are working together behind the scenes to make it extremely difficult to climb along the Skyline. Climbers as a group are just caught in the middle.
and October
I think the real problem is that County Parks and State Parks are being pressured by the South Skyline Property Owners Association to reduce the number of people using Summit, Indian and Castle Rocks. Same reason NO PARKING signs have been posted every few feet all along that section of Skyline Boulevard.
There is no such thing as the "South Skyline Property Owner's Association".
There is a "South Skyline Association" http://www.southskyline.org/
I am the President of the Board at the present time. I've been on the board for about 8 years. I know Stu and he's not been on the board in that time, nor in the few years before that. Stu is not a member of SSA as he doesn't presently live in our geographic area.
The SSA Board has not discussed nor taken a position on the Summit Rock raptor closure. I will bring up the issue at the next board meeting.
NO PARKING signs have been posted along Skyline Blvd for a variety of reasons. Neither State Parks, nor MROSD (Mid-peninsula Regional Open Space District), nor Santa Clara County Parks post these signs, CalTrans does.
SSA has never taken a position on these no parking signs. These have largely been for law enforcement. Closing much of the roadside to parking has certainly reduced the mischief and lawlessness up here. It also reduces hazards between cars and bicyclists. Graffiti on rocks has been a major problem up here and SSA Board has discussed this with CalTrans.
Traffic safety on Highways 84 and 35 (Skyline Blvd) have been a major concern of SSA for several years. We have had many meetings with CalTrans, CHP and others about traffic safety. The only users who've been singled out are bicyclists (concern for their safety) and motorcyclists (concern for their safety and our peace and quiet)
Castle Rock State Park and Sanborn Park are administered by separate agencies who don't always speak to each other. They should not be lumped together.
===
Now speaking for myself:
By the way, Stu is a "BITD" climber and generally sympathetic to climbers.
Local residents have no animosity to climbers nor our sport. We residents recognize that the great majority of climbers are good citizens and protective of the environment and that climbing is a reasonable use of the public lands. We'd rather climbers didn't hike across our land close to our houses or domestic animals. This need not be a problem at Summit Rock since the access from the parking to the rock avoids the neighbors. It can be a problem with hikers wandering around off trail.
Residents of this area are generally "live and let live" people, regardless of their political philosophy. That's one of the reasons we reside up here.
There is plenty of parking at Summit Rock and further south in Sanborn Park. I know these are inconvenient for Castle Rock, I'm just making the point that visitors are being accommodated as well as possible. I think users are very lucky that Castle Rock parking is allowed along the road. I often walk to Castle Rock to climb rather than drive.
Law enforcement: This is a major problem along Skyline Blvd and adjacent roads. State Park, MROSD and Santa Clara County Parks rangers are all sworn law enforcement officers with authority to cite and arrest. No different than in Yosemite.
The residents are lucky to have them around. So are climbers. They work long hours, cover a wide territory. They deal with all sorts of problems from parking citations to rescues of idiot hikers and gun carrying pot farmers (Mexican Mafia). The rangers are the law up here when CHP and County Sheriffs aren't around.
If they stop you it's not because you're a climber, they've got much bigger problems. Either you're doing something illegal or they're checking up on a serious situation. If you're doing something only "slightly" illegal (whatever that means) and they cite you, that SUCKS. It has happened. Pay the fine and complain to the management. Complain to me and I'll mention it to the management in my "official capacity".
I'm certain if we had more State Park rangers, they'd be less stressed, happier and less confrontational.
There are other members of SSA who are active and "BITD" climbers.
There are near neighbors to CSRP and Sanborn Park who are climbers (myself included).
There are also neighbors who are strident environmentalists and mountain bikers (often opposing groups). Many outdoor groups have a stake and have conflicting agendas.
I believe Fire Captain Arnie Wernick's letter quoted by Healyje on Jan 12 best expresses the attitudes of us "locals". There is of course much variety of opinion. I've climbed at Summit Rock with Arnie.
Summit Rock has a spectacular view of Santa Clara Valley and has always been a magnet for beer bottle throwers in the afternoon and long after dark. Often the climbing routes have been nearly unapproachable for the broken glass. This has been alluded to on this thread.
Summit Rock is a fairly small area. Counting the outlier boulders, Bruce's 1995 guide lists 32 climbs, many of them close together. Quite a few are excellent routes. Nothing longer than about 1/2 rope. Some are fun to lead.
There is much over generalization and anger going around in this thread. Healyje's advice is sound. You want the land managers and south skyline residents on your side.
I disagree that there's strong anti-climber bias in the public lands agencies which have been named : MROSD, California State Parks and Santa Clara County Parks. They have noisy constituents of all persuasions. Deliberately flaunting regulations/notices/Ranger requests only makes your case more annoying to them. There have recently been flagrant violations and confrontations between rangers or residents and mountain bikers and off road motorcyclists.
MROSD is governed by a board of directors who represent voters in much of Santa Clara and San Mateo counties, you can imagine the diverse constituencies for yourself. There are recent TRs here from climbs in MROSD areas. As far as I know, those areas are not closed to climbing.
and finally, my thoughts and observations on raptors.
For three years, my place (2 miles south of Summit Rock) was frequented throughout the summer and autumn by first one and then a pair (I watched them mate mid-air---AWESOME) of Peregrine Falcons. I saw them often enough and close enough (right over my house) to be certain of ID. I also saw them, more than once, fly in the evening in the direction of Summit Rock (not Castle Rock). They were at least frequenting the Summit Rock area throughout the summer.
As Healyje suggested there is likely little correlation between human interference with raptors at Oracle/San Jose City Hall and Summit Rock. If there are raptor nest sites at Summit Rock, climbing activity would be within a few feet of them.
The question is would intensive human activity that close to the sites when the birds are not in residence inhibit nesting by the Peregrines when they come back next season?
In my opinion, comparisons of Summit Rock with Pinnacles and Yosemite are shaky. There is plenty of room for nesting on the walls where climbers haven't been close while the Peregrines are away. This is not the case at Castle Rock nor Summit Rock.
Fred Glover
President, South Skyline Association
Climber
Neighbor to Castle Rock State Park and Sanborn County Park
cc: South Skyline Association Board of Directors
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