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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Apr 22, 2010 - 01:04am PT
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"It was cleaned up less than a year after it was made."
"Less than a year" ??!! "...spraying on the internet ..."
Bollocks.
Robinson and Jones - you two TRULY suck. Especially you, Robinson, my one-time hero.
Rap bolting AND garbage. Pathetic.
Jesse - why weren't these wankers held to account, or fined, or something?
Hey you guys - please try to imagine this for a minute. Imagine if *I* were to have left a thousand-pound pile of crap at the base of El Cap what the fallout would have been. Or hey, what if I rap bolt something on El Cap, just for sh|ts and giggles?
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Buju
Big Wall climber
the range of light
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Apr 22, 2010 - 01:07am PT
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dude...i cleaned it up, along with a group of other people
I guess I'm just saying that it is old news. And if people don't like Growing Up, go f-in climb it, and see for yourself. We all know how well that worked for Royal Robbins on the Dawn Wall...
Why are we talking about rap bolting on this thread anyway?
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Apr 22, 2010 - 01:07am PT
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Thank you, it IS appreciated.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Apr 22, 2010 - 06:21am PT
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hey there peter...say, i think i must have missed this.... really wonderful share here... thanks for starting this up.... i always wondered about the back of halfdome...
know i here a name and get to see these neat fabulous photos, too...
say, sean:
what a great share here... thanks so very very much...
fine stuff, well done!
god bless...
:)
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Apr 22, 2010 - 06:25am PT
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hey there all, say, i was curious what started the thread bump...
sorry guys, i did not read deep enough to hear about all this trash, etc...
sad, always, to hear of trash...
cheers to those that got it cleaned...
i was just stepping in, as to the wonders of the back of the dome...
and happy to see that someone had enjoyed climbing it, and shared...
hope all is well now...
i will go back and read more...
god bless, all...
:)
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Apr 22, 2010 - 10:56am PT
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[Accountability bump]
This issue is FAR from "laid to rest" in my mind, and I await the comments of Jesse, Sean and Doug, and of course from our championing prophet of clean climbing Steve Grossman who has made not a single post in the Growing Up thread.
Buju - who are you, please? I would really love to see some before and after photos - could you please post up? What is the condition of the place now compared to when you began your valiant and silent crusade? Once again, thank you.
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Buju
Big Wall climber
the range of light
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Apr 22, 2010 - 11:30am PT
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My name is Roger Putnam. I have lived in Yosemoite for the past 5 years, working for the park service. In my free time, I climb walls.
I work on a wilderness restortation crew. We rove the backcountry and clean up campsites that are either illegal or unsustainable. Last season alone, we worked 503 campsites, mostly in the north end of the park. One of these was Sean Jones'. We have all be doing this type of work for years and I can assure you that that camp has been entirely naturalized. We packed out all of the garbage, cleaned up the fire ring, decompacted the whole footprint, and duffed the area. As I said before, we do this for HUNDREDS of campsites each summer in the park.
If anything, that experience made me psyched to actually go up there someday and work a bit of that climb. The first bunch of pitches look AMAZING!
I definitely do not appreciate smart ass comments about going on a "silent and valient crusade". I definitely did not hear YOU stepping up to go hike up there and carry down all of that garbage. It was pretty tough work. I would liken it to demobilizing from one of your "bigwall camping missions".
Maybe one day I will get a chance to re-meet you at the bridge, Pete.
Cheers,
Roger
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Apr 22, 2010 - 11:46am PT
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so buju,
did the taxpayers pay to clean up the site?
what a deal....
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Buju
Big Wall climber
the range of light
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Apr 22, 2010 - 11:47am PT
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Just as they payed for our crew to clean up 502 other messes in the wilderness last year. (that is just the efforts of our crew, and not to mention those of wilderness rangers)
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Apr 22, 2010 - 11:50am PT
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Evidently we owe you a few beers, Roger - I'll be on the bridge this spring for sure. When you see me, just ask, you'll have beer in your hand as fast as I can hand it over.
So what you're telling me is this, and please correct me if I'm wrong:
 Sean Jones and Doug Robinson left a huge clusterfvck of trash at the base of Half Dome after they completed their route Growing Up by rap-bolting
They hired people to clean up their mess, but those people keffled out on them, and the mess remained
Approximately a thousand pounds of trash lay at the base of the wall for the better part of a year
The Wilderness Restoration Crew, who works for the park service, went in and cleaned up their mess
Are the facts above correct? If not can you please offer any amendments or corrections.
Questions for Roger:
how much garbage [in pounds] did you remove?
what did it consist of? Please be specific.
did you score any good booty?
how many people partook in this exercise?
who were they?
how long did it take you? I would like a reasonable estimate in people/hours/days, something that is measurable, please.
how did the trash get removed - by helicopter, mule, or the old-fashioned way by schlepping?
IMPORTANT: do you have an estimate - a REASONABLE best-guess estimate - as to the TOTAL number of man-hours required to complete this exercise? This will require some thought on your part, sorry, but inquiring minds wish to know.
what is an average hourly rate paid to each person working on this project?
if you used a helicopter, how many flights did it require and for what total duration of time?
what is a reasonable cost estimate for the use of a helicopter? WERNER - you probably know this answer, do you knott?
who paid for this?
what fines and punishment were issued to Sean and Doug?
Jesse, if you know the answers to the questions above, please chime in.
Thank you.
Incidentally, you asked above why we were discussing rap bolting on this thread? We're not, particularly, except in the context that the trash-pile was left by people who rap-bolted the South Face of Half Dome. The reason these questions appear on this thread, is because I happened to be surfing through the forum looking for something else, and came upon this thread where it said that a huge pile of crap had been left at the base of the wall, and hadn't been cleaned up.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Apr 22, 2010 - 11:57am PT
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pretty pathetic that taxpayers had to clean up the mess and the climb is sprayed about in the mags? i am almost speachless....
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wildone
climber
GHOST TOWN
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Apr 22, 2010 - 12:00pm PT
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You know, that campsite was there before we used it. Not to open a big can of worms, but there were gear stashes in the cave up the hill from some pretty damn famous climbers...
And 1000 lbs Pete? Where do you get that figure? I s that including the boulders on top of the ropes?
Seriously dude, what crawled up your a*# and started biting? When I went up to the meadows and left the south face, (admittedly a month or so before those guys cleared out) we had a tupperware bin of medium size with a plastic cutting board, a knife, a coffee cone, some utensils, and aluminum plates. Then, there was the stash of static rope which was in the cave right next to your buddies ropes. The way I see it, when you pay a poor climber to carry that stuff out, and offer to give him 1000 feet of good barely used static rope, and you see him light up with electricity at his good fortune, you consider it a done deal, especially if you have your family in your rig idling in the driveway and you've just sold your house...
Dude took the money and didn't go in there....
And what does this have to do with Laid to Rest?
Onsight, ground up, 750 feet, 5.11c offwidth, chimney, stemming and bridging...
And the rap bolting on growing up?
How come I didn't see a SINGLE one of you crusaders say anything about RETRO bolting a royal robbins route on the NF by a protectable crack???
Sometimes I just don't get it.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Apr 22, 2010 - 12:08pm PT
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Wildone:
It has nothing to do with Laid To Rest. I only ask here because this is the first place I learned that all that stuff had been left behind. However the title of your thread is paradoxically perfect.
I don't know the total weight. That's why I'm asking.
It is regrettable that their paid sherpa keffled out, and stole their money. However it is still the mess-makers' responsibility to clean up after themselves, which they apparently made no further effort to do. Or what efforts they made resulted in nothing.
I most assuredly commented unfavourably on the retro-bolting of Robbins cracks on Half Dome, to the point of hotlinking a photo from the magazine showing buddy clipping a bolt next to what appears to be a perfect Alien crack.
Wildone, are suggesting then, that if you are a "pretty damn famous climber" then it is ok to leave your junk at the base of the route for the park service to clean up?
Before any of us gets too bent out of shape, we should wait to hear from Roger, who can provide facts. Without facts, it's all speculation.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Apr 22, 2010 - 12:09pm PT
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Recriminations, accusations, gnashing of teeth, hands waving, jaws flapping,tax dollars, libel, slander...nice to be back at the Deli.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Apr 22, 2010 - 12:11pm PT
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Right, so why don't we all STFU now, and wait for Roger and Jesse to respond and provide us with the facts, please?
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wildone
climber
GHOST TOWN
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Apr 22, 2010 - 12:16pm PT
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Asking? I thought you were TELLING us it was 1000 lbs, which is laughable.
As far as "famous", I wasn't justifying any behavior, I was just saying a lot of that mess was already there. I am not a famous climber. In fact, I'm hardly a climber at all. More of a working s.o.b that mtn bikes every day, and hasn't climbed in a long time.
Chief, cool it a little. The rating? This thread, if you remember, is about Laid To Rest. Those are the details of that route. Want to know more? I am one of two people who can tell you.
As for Roger's crew, my girlfriend used to lead that crew for years. Their job was roaming and restoring everything back to natural. They probably would have gone up there and cleaned up that camp had we not ever been there.
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wildone
climber
GHOST TOWN
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Apr 22, 2010 - 12:20pm PT
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My mess? I left in may to go up to Tuolumne to work. I packed my gear out. There were climbers in that camp for, golly, like two more months after I left. At that point I had nothing to do with the project. I didn't pay anyone to carry anything out.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Apr 22, 2010 - 12:26pm PT
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responsibility belongs to the other guy chief..... sad state of affairs as it were....
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Buju
Big Wall climber
the range of light
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Apr 22, 2010 - 12:26pm PT
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Im sorry for speaking up to say it had BEEN CLEANED UP.
Once again, it was certainly not cleaned up by any of the people who love to bitch on the internet about things like this. Do you guys come to the park to clean up other people's messes? Wildone and I both have done this for YEARS, so don't even begin to bitch to us about things like this.
Ben, once again, i'm sorry for speaking up, I should have known that supertopo was too inmature to do anything around this issue other than yell, call names, and behave like babies.
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wildone
climber
GHOST TOWN
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Apr 22, 2010 - 12:33pm PT
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Yeah, back at the deli.
No big deal Roger. Sorry I didn't see you up there last weekend.
Gotta love human nature!
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