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klk
Trad climber
cali
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"As for the case against Maestri, I'd say it's not complete airtight but the evidence against him is pretty damning."
It's as close to airtight as anything in the high mountains is likely to be, unless we find long-forgotten 16mm footage showing him backing off at his actual high point(s).
And as Karl and JM say, it is sad that such a great and visionary climber will be remembered primarily for a hoax and an air compressor.
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John Mac
Trad climber
Littleton, CO
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Pete,
If the bolts had fallen out, wouldn't JB have seen the holes and used them?
Cheers
John Mac
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drljefe
climber
Old Pueblo, AZ
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Unbelievable, no. Unreal, wait. Farkin amazing!
With all those links this was a great read.
Thanks Donini and everyone.
WOW.
In related news, I just got a $145.00 gift card from Patagonia
for some OLD played out fleece! Woohoo!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Great discussion! Time for the lowdown straight from the source at the time. Mountain 23 Sept 72 The bloody Cerro Torre issue. Everything that you ever wanted to know and more. The Ken Wilson interview with Maestri will follow.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Well, since Mt. is long gone, there's no one left to intitiate a lawsuit.
Thanks for the scanning labor.
In a perfect world, we'd have the dough to hire groms to scan, post and catalogue the entire collection of the AAC Library. The German and Italian mags are there as well as the French and English.
Imagine all the mags, back issues to the 19th c (in a few cases), searchable online, the way the AAJ is now.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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The Alcove beneath El Cap Spire, when Tom and I climbed Bermuda Dunes and replaced the rusty old 1/4" anchor bolts with 3/8-inchers.
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Zander
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Great thread!
Thanks all, especially Mr. donini
Z
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 4, 2009 - 11:10pm PT
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Shooting wolves from helicopters, pneumatic bolt guns, 8000 meter peaks draped with fixed ropes: why are we so out of synch with nature?
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yo
climber
I drink your milkshake!
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Because we're all so snail-eyed we can barely get outta bed in the morning.
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Ezra
Social climber
WA, NC, Idaho Falls
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Thanks Jim Donini!
Fantastic post, I heard you recount the same story in Salt Lake in 1999 or so, at a presentation for a mountainering shop; I believe you 100%.
Bonatti got the shaft so many times, especially with the K2 expedition.
I guess climbers are just like the rest of society, although I'd like to believe we hold ourselves to a higher standard.
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WBraun
climber
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Higher standard?
We can only climb so high on our own.
To go higher you need the kind of help that we don't have ....
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Fletcher
Trad climber
the end of the world as we know it, & I feel fine.
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Thanks for a stimulating and very fascinating post Jim (and to all those that contributed additional articles et al.). This has really helped me to get a better understanding of all the elements of this long running story. SuperTopo is capable of some fine things.
Eric
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Paulina
Trad climber
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Awesome thread. Thank you Jim D. and everyone who responded with articles, images, and their own perspective. A fascinating read!
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Well, Jim, I'm just going to throw a little bit of doubt into the equation you and others have constructed on the Cerro Torre question. Although I think your analysis is probably close to the truth, I feel the need to emphasize that Toni Egger was one of the best ice climbers of his generation, and Maestri of course was a great rock climber. Between them, they had soloed many of the hard alpine and Dolomite climbs in very fast times.
They were, purely and simply, capable of climbs that no American at the time was able to understand. Even when you started climbing in Patagonia I don't think you had much experience of current standards of alpine (ice and mixed terrain) movement as practiced in France and Italy. Those dudes could motor! It's kind of like an American cyclist of the day trying to comprehend the speed of Jacque Anquetil or Eddy Merckx: it would be a couple of decades before Americans were capable of performing at that level (understanding the skills, mind-set, experience required).
I think most of the lack of evidence of Maestri and Egger's passage on the upper part of the mountain, and the speed with which Maestri claims they climbed it, could be atributable to exceptionally heavy icing and a truly inspired effort by a pair of the greatest alpinists of the era. In my mind, it's just possible they did it!
But you're probably right...
Thanks for the great posts, old man.
-Jello
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GDavis
Trad climber
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Donini,
Where is the line on Desecration? If some committee came up with an arbitrary bolt count, would The Nose be on it?
The compressor route, like The Nose, are history. Whether or not they are relevant can be found right here in this thread, and in articles written since he named the Col of Conquest, as writing of them gives them relevance.
There is enough reason to believe that his ascents were not the valid ascents, and I too like to think that if you can only take in 180 degrees of the view around you your ascent isn't full! But lets be honest and say that Maestri was a unique character and his story helps create the definition of alpinism. After seeing all the bolts on the nose, Robbins put his neck out that much farther to keep his hole count low, I speculate.
In short, don't discount Maestri's ascent as something diabolical or desecrated. That is how he wanted to live his life, so be it, and until Doc Brown comes by with the Delorean set to 1959 there isn't much we can do to change it. Chop the route, keep the route... that spire will be standing long after we are all dead, the best we can do is set good examples for our childrens, and any babies they might make who decide climbing is a good idea.
By the way, I did read Enduring Patagonia, thanks for the recommendation. What a stubborn bastard!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Is it just that hope springs eternal?
Did Jeff just fart in a crowded elevator?
I must admit that inside me is a little voice that would take great glee in somebody finding rap anchors that were definitely from '59 high on the north side,..
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Jellow makes a good point.. An inch of ice plastered over the rock changes eveything.
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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I get what you're saying, Ron; in a bigfoot, sasquatch, Mallory, kind of way I want to believe that he pulled it off, nailing between the ice and rock, mebbe, as Bridwell suggests, somehow, the scientist partition of my brain is disinclined to think that that evidence will be forthcoming.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 5, 2009 - 10:04am PT
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Jeff, you have a point about icing, that wouldn't explain the complete absence of rap anchors and the false description of the climbing. G. Davis, concerning your point about desecration and the comparison with the Nose. El Cap is the premiere wall climbing venue on the planet but it lacks something a mountain like Cerro Torre has- ACCESSIBILITY. You can hike to the top of El Ca: hell, Dick Cheney, if he adjusted his pace maker, could do it. To me that factor, accessibility, is what makes a mountain magical. To have pieces of real estate, on this crowded planet, that are extremely difficult to attain fires up my imagination. Its a primitive thing, I get a similar feeling when I'm in an area inhabited by wolves. Using whatever technology it takes to attain these summits seems unfitting. I only wish that there was a mountain (say Torre Egger on top of K2) whose summit would never see a human footprint.
I have never advocated chopping the Compressor Route- I just mourn the fact that it is there.
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