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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 29, 2009 - 10:46pm PT
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Even on the feet of John Muir himself I'd have to say that the only good thing about snowshoes is that early longboards were called "Norwegian snowshoes."
Postholing, however -- now John Muir would have no trouble at all making that sound kinda noble.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Mar 29, 2009 - 10:59pm PT
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If he learned something in the process, you'd know it!
How often did PSOM run ski related activities, if at all?
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Mar 29, 2009 - 11:16pm PT
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This is the statue of Sondre Norheim, outside the Norwegian ski museum in Morgedal.
He was born in 1825, and is considered a or perhaps the father of modern skiing.
There's an excellent website about Morgedal (in English) at http://www.morgedal.com/
And an even better one about Sondre Norheim at http://www.sondrenorheim.com/ It includes photos of the cabin where he was born, which I've visited - but I can't find my photos of it.
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 29, 2009 - 11:17pm PT
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PSOM never ran ski events.
Jensen was gone before BC skiing boomed.
Smoke had skied on Mt. Hood as a young man, but seemed to like his rock course in the winter by the time I knew him. That's when he was home, of course. He led treks all over Asia, loved the languages, culture, Buddhism. Scrambles in the Port Hills of Hong Kong were more alluring to him.
Fischer took PSOM to Central and South America.
I built up a ski guiding business, but not under PSOM.
Dave Beck brought his guiding business over from Sequoia and it thrived in Mammoth.
Bela Vadasz (ASI) was based at Donner but came down the Eastside quite a bit.
Tim Keating from clear up at Shasta made regular trips.
Bard and Carter (Alpine Expeditions) were the first Bishop guides to really advertise ski guiding trips on the Eastside, and they had started out winter guiding for Beck so there were a few feelings over that.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Mar 29, 2009 - 11:34pm PT
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How good are the records for first ski ascents and traverses?
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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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Mar 29, 2009 - 11:43pm PT
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Thanx DR, I grew up on stories of Pierre Mazeaud, Gaston Rebaffut(sp) and you. Filling in"more" of the real history is one of the truly beneficial things about ST. .....
......now back to more worthless political bantering.......(What ever happened to going out for a hike or actual craggin'?)
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 30, 2009 - 11:18am PT
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The records are variable, Steve.
I have to assume that the older records are in order, cuz they were done by Sierra Club boys, and the Club published the first guidebooks. That said, Clyde lived all those years in roadhead lodges and camped out high up Rock Creek etc. every spring and we don't hear much about his ski summits or traverses. His climbing records seem pretty intact, but it's possible (likely, I'd guess) that he viewed skiing in kind of the same way as early Joshua Tree climbers looked at their "scrambling" in the desert: why bother to write that stuff down.
Clyde said, for instance, that he skied upcanyon nearly every day for all those winters at Glacier Lodge. No records. OK, now that I think of it perhaps he actually did have little to report. I think of my own winters in Rock Creek. My cabin is at 10,000 feet, and when I lived there it was easily the most remote habitation in the Sierra. I skied upcanyon nearly every day too. But no summits. Skied Bear Creek Spire, for instance, scores of times, but I nearly always turned around at the notch 700' below the top. I probably summited in winter under four times. Skiing gets to be about the skiing, and summits can feel way irrelevant -- especially if you have to stash the boards and hike. Why bother?
Clyde lived lower. Glacier Lodge is about 8000'. Third Lake at 10,200' would be a healthy day, and above there the snow would be gnarlier from wind. I'll bet he skied Mt. Alice a couple of times and not much else.
Back to the records. For modern stuff, say 1970 on, there is no central record keeping. The memories of a few locals, but that's about it. Secor doesn't seem to collect ski info. People skiing peaks don't seem to write it down. Stories are catch-as-catch-can.
The Structure of the Sierra leads folks to tour, not mountaineer. There's no repository of touring records. Of course there should be.
For speed touring, it is so esoteric and so little-known that if I joke that only half a dozen people even care, that's actually perilously close to the truth. I guess I have the best info on it, but it's all in my head. I've written one or two short pieces about blazing the Sierra High Route in 22:05, and referred to Marty's records in passing, but nothing else is published. Guess I should just list it out here when I get back from doing my presentation. And post my obscure speed-touring pieces. Can ST stand this much ski drift? I hope so. Can't say I even know where to find BC ski forums.
My show for Mammoth is titled Wings of Glass. (Guess which El Cap route gave me the idea?) I harbor an intention of writing a book by the same title that would draw together stories, inspiration, context, history and maybe a sidelight of guidebook-type trip suggestions, all for Sierra skiing. But realistically it's the second or third book in the lineup, so don't start holding your breath out there for a good five years.
I think it will be fun though. I know I'd like to hold it in my hands and know that some of the delight and the poetry and the photos out of all the inspiration, sensuality, goofiness and sheer fun we've had sliding through winter here in my lifetime gets passed on.
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 30, 2009 - 11:41am PT
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Thanks DMT!
I've told you this before too, but I have been inspired at times by the meaning of your moniker -- sometimes out of my gourd. And I love the wide-ranging wit and stories and seat-of-the-trousers southern sense you bring to this tribe.
Sometimes I catch myself musing about a winter version of sushi-fest. (Does Nature ski?) Could be borderline too much fun to gather this lot on tele boards...
And, just to bring this down a notch or six, the last few days have found me at times up to my elbows in klister sorting out some ancient waxes ("I'll never use THIS stuff again...") to dump on, ..er, make that "donate to" the ski museum. The sad truth is that the King of Wax, not unlike his rap-bolting summer counterpart, has fallen so far from his Muir-Trail-without-skins former glory that he doesn't use the stuff much anymore.
Oh, who can resist a light coat of blue on the fresh and cold, or even an occasional klister kicker in the spring? Sure, that's the ticket. But day in and day out, whether it's jumping onto the touring tracks for a workout in the twilight or taking laps to ski the trees up behind the cabin, waxless is mostly how I roll. I know, I know, I hate to break it to you like this in the harsh cold light of a Monday morning.
But the sad truth is that the Sierra is a very tricky Range to wax for (Tar and those Rockies boys got it easy: just slap on some hard green and it's good for the whole winter, right? So goes the myth, anyway). Blame it here on the maritime influence on our climate. Very real, and in the same proportion as it makes waxing gnarly, it also lowers our avy hazard. So I'll take it with a smile.
So instead of scraping off yet another coat of wax that doesn't quite work I'm out there, moving over snow.
Just climb on my waxless boards, "step on the gas and wipe that tear away."
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Mar 30, 2009 - 02:00pm PT
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Tar and those Rockies boys got it easy: just slap on some hard green and it's good for the whole winter, right? So goes the myth, anyway
It's a myth.
Although it is often cold here, we get lots of sun, so temperature changes in and out of the shade can wreak havoc with the wax program.
In the 90s, when I moved out here, I started with a very narrow pair of waxless skis (not quite a racing profile) and did all of my backcountry touring on that set up. Then I decided to become a man, don something with edges and wax like back in the bad old days. That lasted for a couple of seasons; we also had to make many adjustments throughout any given day.
Now I use kicker skins 24/7 (touring).
The only thing I kick wax is my classic racing set up, for use in the set tracks.
And yes most of the time that's blue wax. When it's green, whether for glide, skate or kick, it's almost too cold for the skis to run nicely.
[end of Colorado thread drift]
Can ST stand this much ski drift?
Back to *ON SuperTopo TOPIC backcountry skiing and ski mountaineering*
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Mar 30, 2009 - 02:07pm PT
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"Just climb on my waxless boards"
A shocking revelation! You're a big man to admit it!
You mean they make waxless boards that work now? I gave up on 'em 25 years ago.
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 30, 2009 - 02:23pm PT
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The new-age backcountry waxless: Fischer S-Bound or Atomic Chugach. They are 175 cm, about the width of a classic downhill ski but with more parabolic sidecut of course, metal edges, waxless in the center (yeah, it still slows you down, downhill) and very light.
75 mm classic pin bindings. Garmont Excursion boots. Kick and glide 20 miles, then ski off the cornice.
Downhill performance is about 75% of what you get with latest hottie tele skis. I can turn them well down black diamonds, but start to look like a sloppy geezer on the double diamonds.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Mar 30, 2009 - 07:51pm PT
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Sierra Ski Mountaineering is OT as far as I'm concerned. Don would certainly agree and it's his thread!
Mo blend....
Ahhhh- Supreme Wilderness.....just rolls off your tongue!
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Mar 30, 2009 - 07:59pm PT
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easy on the "academics," bro.
one of my students is writing his dissertation on a comparative history of ski resorts in central europe and the western u.s.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Mar 31, 2009 - 10:43am PT
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Is this fine hut still in operation?
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Mar 31, 2009 - 08:42pm PT
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"The combination of skiing and mountaineering is the finest of all sports"
 Sir Arnold Lunn
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Mar 31, 2009 - 09:03pm PT
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Nice links! Looks like a fun hang 5 miles in.
Frank Smythe liked a good ski too! Classic photos from My Alpine Album, 1947.
Eiger in the background.
Betcha can't post just one! Matterhorn and the Riffelhorn.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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A little DR even if he's not on! From Climbing August 1998.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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I'm turning 50 in a month or so and I'm just happy that, as evidenced by all the classic black and white shots in this thread, that there are many on this forum far older than even I
Gloat
;-)
Karl
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 7, 2009 - 12:11am PT
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Happy Birthday Karl!
You may have to wait a bit, though, to really get your gloat on. I've been behaving as if 60 really IS the new 40. So far it's working out just fine.
Cheers,
Doug
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