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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Mar 20, 2009 - 04:08pm PT
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Ray Jardine was selling Friends in the Valley in the spring of 1978. You could by a #1, 2 or 3 for the pricey sum of $17. The general feeling was that nobody would use them except for very special circumstances because they were so expensive.
Bruce
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Harpfreak
Trad climber
California
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Mar 21, 2009 - 02:41am PT
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Hello all. Im the one with the cams on ebay. I didnt think they would cause so much drama. As stated, I bought several from Dave then bought 2 more later. Dave told me Walt made them in college and Walt was standing right there. He didnt deny it. I didnt ask him if he did. I had no reason to question it. Ask Dave Ingersol. If anyone has Daves contact info tell him Randy says hi or please P.M. me with it. I would love to say hi. I will give the cams to any supertopo member that wins them for free as long as they donate them to the Yosemite museum. So PLEASE bid away.In hindsite,
I would have just sent them there if I had known they were going to
be considered collectible.That was the reason I put Walts name on the listing. I didnt want them hanging on a rack and being used.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Mar 21, 2009 - 02:53am PT
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Randy,
Better to end the auction than to give them to the highest bidder. Otherwise you will have to pay ebay's 2-3% on the final bid amount! (Which could be huge if the buyers do not pay and bid very high).
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Harpfreak
Trad climber
California
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Mar 21, 2009 - 03:19am PT
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Can I end the auction without getting my ass in a sling? I would have done that days ago.Im not ebay savvy.Please enlighten me.
I will do just that if possible.Thanks! Im gonna go read ebays policies now.
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Harpfreak
Trad climber
California
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Mar 21, 2009 - 03:25am PT
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Never mind!! DONE! Now who has a mailing address for the museum?
Thanks!
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Mar 21, 2009 - 03:38am PT
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Harpfreak,
I can't speak for everyone on this forum, but I think the general feeling was one of just trying to determine who made the cams for history sake. I don't think anyone was trying to say that you were trying to make a fast buck by lying about the origin of the cams.
This is really interesting stuff and I think we all just wanted to get the correct history.
Bruce
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Harpfreak
Trad climber
California
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Mar 21, 2009 - 04:00am PT
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Im just glad they will get a good home. I looked up the museum and they have a P.O. box. Think i will just email them and let them know to watch the box.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 21, 2009 - 04:09am PT
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Randy, glad to see you made it to the thread!
Like I was describing relative to Ken, Stephane, Marty, and Gary's collections - Ken's is as close as there is to a 'Yosemite Museum' and my vote would be to just ship them to him. I'll send you his email and you can get ahold of him directly.
Thanks.
-Joseph
P.S. If he ends up not really interested then I'd take them and send one to Marty and one to Stephane which would also insure they are preserved in collections that will eventually find permanent homes.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Mar 21, 2009 - 04:55am PT
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> P.S. If he ends up not really interested then I'd take them and send one to Marty and one to Stephane which would also insure they are preserved in collections that will eventually find permanent homes.
In that event, a payment to Randy would be in order, as Randy's condition was that they be donated to the Yosemite museum....
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 21, 2009 - 06:10am PT
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Clint,
As someone who mostly ebay proxies for Stephane (I pay, he collects [so my basement stays uncluttered and I can visit someday]) - and who also has fed gear to both Ken and Marty - I feel any of the three collections (Ken, Stephane, Marty) are essentially equivalent relative to the long term odds of them surviving intact and finding a permanent home. Ken's has the closest affinity to Yosemite and he has been getting his collection out there. Stephane and Marty extensively research all aspects of every piece of gear (and gear maker in Stephane's case) - all are looking for permanent homes, though Ken is clearly ahead on that curve.
So, while I'm not much better off than anyone else here, I'd be happy to work out something with Randy if that's what he'd like, but in my view all three of their collections qualify as 'museums' for the purposes of preserving the more metallic aspects our collective heritage. And again, maybe I'm completely off on all this and none of you Valley folk who were around then and knew Walt and David really care about these cams; as I said, I was simply trying to catch something of potential interest to you folks as it was winging by on ebay (good catch on Stephane's part)...
P.S. But we got Randy on ST out of the deal and that's not bad either way. Welcome to ST Randy! Would love to hear how you ended up in the custom harmonica business.
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fosburg
climber
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Mar 21, 2009 - 10:41am PT
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Walt did not make those cams. A friend of his and Dave Ingersoll's named Richard C. Hunt made cams and those are probably some of them.
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Jack Burns
climber
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Mar 21, 2009 - 11:59am PT
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ebay sucks big floppy donkey dicks
just sayin
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Mar 21, 2009 - 01:13pm PT
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I bought this unit from Mr Byrne shortly before the launch of Wired Bliss he still lived in Oregon then, I believe.
Bill Zauman was selling something similar.
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Harpfreak
Trad climber
California
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Mar 21, 2009 - 05:34pm PT
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Ken emailed to say he has a pretty good collection of Walts gear and will add it to that. Even better than I could have hoped for.
Healy, to answer your question, I did drywall (UGH!) for 30 years and Im not a big guy so it just destroyed me. Had a few neck surgeries and started looking for am alternative. I have played harp for 16 years and was disgusted with the quality so tried making my own. I tried every kind of woodworking machinery and had never even seen a milling machine.Then someone told me I need a cnc. I looked at them and was shocked by the prices. I finally found a site for the DIY machinist. I bought a harbor freight mill and slowly bought the parts to retrofit it. I almost sold it many times thinking it would never work but finally got it finished.
Its a pretty competitive business. But I finally have a pretty decent clientele base. If I ever find that other cam like the ones in question Ill post a pic of it here. Anyone know Dave Ingersol's contact info?
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fosburg
climber
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Mar 21, 2009 - 06:07pm PT
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Check your email Harp-Daddy.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Mar 21, 2009 - 06:16pm PT
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#1 - #3 Friends were available retail in Vancouver in spring 1979. One climber bought one in the Valley in autumn 1978, and we were all mystified by it. I think the #4 Friends became available later in 1979, or maybe 1980.
I remember all sorts of knock-offs and variations of Friends in the early 1980s. Every time you went to the Valley, someone would be hawking the things around the parking lot. The #1/2 Friend appeared in 1985 or 1986, but at about that time Metolius started producing smaller cams.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Mar 21, 2009 - 10:11pm PT
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I just left a phone message with Dave Ingersoll to get some definitive input on all this...
Harp, looks like Kevin Fosberg has forwarded Ingersoll's contact; if not I will be happy to do so.
Cheers,
Roy
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Harpfreak
Trad climber
California
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Mar 22, 2009 - 04:20am PT
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I dont know why Im not getting emails originating from this forum.
Its not in my spam. Not in my email at all. Can you send it to me at randyharps@comcast.net
Thanks
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Mar 22, 2009 - 01:35pm PT
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I just got off the phone with Dave Ingersoll.
Mystery solved.
As Rob, Kevin, Dick and others have attested or suspected, Walt did not make the cams.
Dave doesn't really remember telling Randy that Walt made the cams, but given the origin of the cams, this doesn't necessarily imply that Randy is misrepresenting anything to us.
Here's the trick:
The guy who originally manufactured the cams, for his own reasons, didn't want it disclosed that he had made them.
Now, to conjecture, this perhaps is why Dave and Walt were a bit tight lipped or evasive about the origin of the cams. This potentially explains why Walt didn't respond when mention was made of him as the producer of the items. Regarding what is remembered by Randy at the time of purchase, this is a vague element of history and whatever was said back then, it follows that it was meant to respect the wishes of the producer and it likewise facilitated a meager distribution. I'm sure Randy was stoked to get them, as any of us would have been, never mind what we were told about their origin.
So, per Dave Ingersoll, Walt definitively didn't make them: beyond that it doesn't much matter who did. This settles the provenance of the items, for accurate historical archiving purposes.
I sure remember how much we all wanted small cams back then, and the Oravetz/Altman units, along with any others being made (whether by secret operators), were a prized acquisition!
Thanks to Healyje & Randy for your efforts at archiving bits of history for us all.
Happy treasure hunting everybody...
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dickcilley
Social climber
A cova Dos Nenos
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Mar 23, 2009 - 10:20am PT
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I knew Dave I. would have the facts.
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