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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Mar 11, 2009 - 02:42pm PT
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Hey Anastasia:
What Healyje said is right on:
"Testosterone, in the absence of constraining higher brain functions, is alternately the source of both bold and stupid - climbing with females is a mixed context that challenges men's behavior and integrity in ways they are not necessarily designed for. Consider it a test most will fail and as a way of sorting the gems from the choss."
I recommend prevailing upon your intuition to hone in on guys that get that and know how to work it.
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reddirt
climber
Elevation 285 ft
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Mar 11, 2009 - 02:53pm PT
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start talking about crusty undies if you feel the need to repel (not to be confused w/ rappel)
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Anastasia
climber
Not here
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 11, 2009 - 02:56pm PT
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Tami, my deepest thanks for being so understanding and frank... You are my hero...
Everyone, literally thank you for all the good advice... I'll be chewing on these words of wisdom for a while... There are so many deep insights.. I am in awe.
I guess everyone is working with their common sense and that folks... That's where all the fun begins. No one thinks alike so I'm going to call it "common sense chaos."
Blah! I wish it was easier! LOL! Guess this falls under my Dad's saying; "nothing worth anything is ever easy."
:)AF
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Mar 11, 2009 - 03:00pm PT
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"Climb with someone of similar ability. If Mr. 5.12 is willing to belay you up 5.9s, then he has an agenda"
I find this to be often true. On the (potentially) positive note, guys with an agenda will be very nice to you, climb what you want to climb, and lead the crux if ask them to. This can seem like more fun than climbing w/ your girls right up until the alterior motives cast a pall over the warm glow of such a fine day of cimbing.
On women-only trips you get the flip side of this coin which is that they are rarely wildly unbalanced in terms of ability, so there's not a lot of patience for someone not pulling their weight. Jealously is also more likely to happen not (just?) because everyone is female, but b/c the abilities are more closely matched and ripe for comparison in the first place. And, if you don't date women, you won't get a chance to meet that special someone over the course of an exciting shared experience on the rock.
Edit to say that I like and get frustrated w/ both dynamics (and others that I didn't blurb on), so I try to keep a mix going. In my case the dude w/ the alterior motive is my bf of a long time (is Suze here to get on me about that?). Although we have a lot of fun and I can keep up better than I could when I met him, some of the challenges of feeling like we're on the rock together for some reason other than our shared skills and goals never totally go away.
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malabarista
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Mar 11, 2009 - 03:10pm PT
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The great thing about most men is they are obvious. With women, one usually never knows. That's why they get the reputation of being manipulative sometimes. The cougar is a rarer creature than the woman who embraces you from a distance, tells you her most intimate secrets and longings, but should you actually appear in person is nowhere to be found. This used to confuse me to all get out when I was younger. Recently a nephew was having the same issue and then I finally got it. "They" do this, it was never about me. I was finally able to give a good piece of advice about this pattern. "Dude this is a pattern with some women. You are going to run into a lot of women who do this in your life so don't let it get you down and just learn to expect it will happen sometimes."
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 11, 2009 - 03:16pm PT
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As long as people's consciousness is centered around their temporary bodily identity, throughout the world you will continue to find quarrels, fights, riots, wars, the tragedy of people starving in Africa and other places because of the politics, and everything else that motivates people to act on the bodily platform because of the superficial differences between races, religions, cultures, sexes, ideals, or political viewpoints.
On a more local level, you will continue to see or experience sexual harassment, rape, child abuse, violent crime, drug abuse, unwed mothers, etc., because of the lust and greed that motivates people to cater to their bodily and sensual urges. And with the lust for satisfying the body and senses comes emotions like jealousy, envy, anger, hatred, and so on.
Furthermore, when one's relationship with others is based on the vehicle of the temporary body, it is usually based simply on mutual behavior.
This means that the relationship lasts as long as the medium of gratification stays the same. If or when the behavior, ideals, goals, values, political views, etc., change, then the friendship and concern, that once may have seemed so deep, also changes and begins to fade or even disappears. Sometimes it may even give way to opposition and dislike. This is because the relationship has been based on the superficial level.
An enlightened society will naturally be able to work together because they will rise above superficial differences and not let them get in the way.
By Stephen Knapp
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Prod
Trad climber
A place w/o Avitars apparently
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Mar 11, 2009 - 03:17pm PT
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Chicks cry when climbing, the way I see it is you ought to get something for putting up with crying. If a guy starts crying on me he’d better be expecting that brokeback moment….
Crimpie, confessed crier.
Lamebones wife (sorry I forgot your name), confessed crier.
Christa (my fiance), witnessed crier.
How many of you are going to call that dude that broke down crying over following an unprotected airy 5.7 traverse? Not gonna happen. Climbing as with any relationship has its benefits, if it didn’t it’d be guiding.
I’d say climb with whomever you want, if you develop a romantic relationship great, if not ok. If you like them and let your feeling be known and are shot down, expect the relationship to change, same with vise versa. If they are guiding you around their crags or doing all the work, you damn well better be entertaining and fun (male or female), and/or supply the beer or get dinner etc.
EDIT I like what Melissa said. I never thought about the cattieness of an all woman trip. Boy that sounds like fun...
Prod.
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
In the mountains... somewhere...
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Mar 11, 2009 - 03:26pm PT
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I swear I wasn't hitting on you last night. Really!
You believe me don't you.
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Anastasia
climber
Not here
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 11, 2009 - 03:26pm PT
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I don't think so Melissa... I climb with a whole lot of people with higher ability... Usually I am a belay slave for the day and get a treat for the effort. It can still be symbiotic despite the grade differences. Plus, most of them would rather lead all day than follow.
As for other situations, I have many successful friendships with guys both single and married. I just wish that it was more common... I am sure a few of you guys feel the same about us girls.
:)AF
P.S.
G_GNOME! Never thought you were! Oh dear, is that wrong of me to not be considering you??? Dang it, I'm never going to get this right! (Head banging against wall.) You are a stud, (I am not hitting on you!) You are wonderful! (Will you still put up with me?) :)AF
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Fletcher
Trad climber
here to eternity
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Mar 11, 2009 - 03:30pm PT
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The interesting thing is that if you forget about the male/female dynamics, a climbing partnership can start out a lot like dating. It has the potential to be a pretty intimate (I don't mean sexual for those in the peanut gallery!) relationship given the reliance placed (or not placed) on each other. We all practice various levels of safe climbing (ora lack thereof!). LOL.
It's not always easy to find a good, reliable partner who matches what you need and what you want to give. It takes work and probably most important, self-knowledge, honesty, and self-confidence for it to work out well.
Fletch
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goatboy smellz
climber
dirty south
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Mar 11, 2009 - 03:34pm PT
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Stick a tube sock down yer panties and tell him you're a hermaphrodite..no wait scratch that, you'll probably still get hit on.
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d-know
Trad climber
electric lady land
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Mar 11, 2009 - 03:36pm PT
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get a mullet
and wear sleeveless
flannel shirts.
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Fletcher
Trad climber
here to eternity
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Mar 11, 2009 - 03:37pm PT
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Yeah, goatboy, there's no way around it. No matter what kind heinous, freaky thing you can think of, there's gonna be a guy or gal who digs it! Worse yet, there's probably whole 'net groups dedicated to it's pursuit.
I don't wanna even know!!! :-)
Fletch
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Mar 11, 2009 - 03:37pm PT
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I have never seen a woman cry when climbing yet. Nor a man cry when climbing. I HAVE heard kids screaming their lungs out, only to look up and see them clinging to an air section of a second pitch and thinking "No WONDER they're screaming!"
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d-know
Trad climber
electric lady land
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Mar 11, 2009 - 03:46pm PT
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yer a quick'n.
no wonder
situatuion=hopeless.
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drljefe
climber
Old Pueblo, AZ
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Mar 11, 2009 - 03:48pm PT
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HEY, ANASTASIA
Why are you worried about this crap-
Don't you have a job interview today???
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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Mar 11, 2009 - 03:48pm PT
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Ana - You are an attractive woman.
Any opportunity to climb with you would be a treat for anyone (I think) be they male or female. Think of it this way, anyone climbing with you is automatically given a leg up on the "socially acceptable" scale.. kind of like your pretty rubs off a little on the other person.
On the subject of procedure: If you are upset by the actions of a certain individual then let them know. Aside from that, I have no idea as I am not a person who is sought for companionship (and I half like it that way, for I don't have these types of dilemma's... ever! LOL).
I hope this helps.
oh, yah.. final note... men are pigs and should be dealt with accordingly.... except for me.. I'm cool!
Cheers
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Mar 11, 2009 - 03:50pm PT
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That's right
Jingy's cool. I know. I met him at sushifest.
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atchafalaya
climber
Babylon
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Mar 11, 2009 - 03:52pm PT
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stop thinking, start climbing.
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