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bluering

Trad climber

Santa Clara, Ca.

Nov 15, 2008 - 01:05pm PT

"- which may be why so many professions, including nursing and gynecologists, insist that their members have personal, hands-on, experience. "

Apples/oranges, Anders.

I don't need 'hands on' experience in Iran to know that hanging homos isn't right.

I don't need to see a girl with acid burns on her face to surmise that girls should be allowed to go to school and some people don't like that.

I don't need to see 3 Christian girls heads cut off to realize that some sick Islamic radical hates Christian girls who want to learn.

No, I don't need to experience it first hand, I can see clearly from afar.

Roughster

Sport climber

Vacaville, CA

Nov 15, 2008 - 01:12pm PT

So how did all that fear mongering you did during the campaign work out for you?

Do you expect a different outcome now that he is elected?

You know what the common definition of insanity is right?

bluering

Trad climber

Santa Clara, Ca.

Nov 15, 2008 - 01:14pm PT

Roughster, make a point.

The common definition of insanity, no. Do tell.

I do know that hell can be defined as the lack of reason though.

jstan

climber

Nov 15, 2008 - 01:29pm PT

Interesting to compare the lack of concern here about governmental wire tapping and the high level of worry about possession of weapons. IMO we have a lot of trouble determining where our real danger lies.

I had security clearance for some fifty years. A lot of questions and there is investigative follow up. You tell them you talked to someone or you have a friend and those people will often get a phone call. They especially want to know everything about travels off shore. I would be amazed if White House staff has ever had anything less than the equivalent of "top secret" clearance.

If not, they should. Without question.

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Nov 15, 2008 - 01:31pm PT

"I don't need to see 3 Christian girls heads cut off to realize that some sick Islamic radical hates Christian girls who want to learn.

No, I don't need to experience it first hand, I can see clearly from afar"

Actually, people seem to have an easier time seeing things from afar. It's seeing our own issues that are too close that people tend to be blind to.

Peace

karl

bluering

Trad climber

Santa Clara, Ca.

Nov 15, 2008 - 01:37pm PT

...and the equivocation begins with Karl!!!!

Karl, tell us all how wicked our culture is in relation to 'theirs'.

Lemme guess;

We intentionaly kill people too (death penalty)

We hate homos (no gay marriage)

Women tend to make less money than men

Women are still raped in this country

and...

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber

Arid-zona

Nov 15, 2008 - 01:37pm PT

The point that people seem to be missing is that you don't have to experience American bobs killing entire families to see that we hate Muslims and care more about oil than people.

See how that sword cuts both ways? Right now there is some Arab version of bluering ranting on the internet about how negotiating with the West is dumb and they have made themselves plainly clear, and some US educated Arab liberal saying "dude have you ever actually MET any Americans? Or been to the West?"

bluering

Trad climber

Santa Clara, Ca.

Nov 15, 2008 - 01:49pm PT

" we hate Muslims and care more about oil than people. "

Well, if we have people in the West that truly believe that we'd quit bombing poor Arabs and drill locally, right?

After all, if we just left Arabs alone they wouldn't spray acid in girls' faces and chop peoples' heads off. They'd be peaceful, because they are inherently a humane people.

And where is our oil from this war? The f*#king Chiners got the first contract, where's ours?

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Nov 15, 2008 - 01:54pm PT

That Jesus Christ was the original equivocator when he suggested we take the log out of our own eye when we are always on the lookout for other's vices.

It's easy to see the faults of other from afar but we don't get the whole picture. Other countries that might read news of some hate crime against gays or blacks know more about us from Movies and TV to know we aren't a hateful society.

That's not true for Pakistan or Afghanistan where we don't see their media and culture all the time.

Funny thing is, Climbers to go to Pakistan all the time and often come back and remark how people are super nice,with unbelievable hospitality.

There is a bigger picture always

Peace

Karl

bluering

Trad climber

Santa Clara, Ca.

Nov 15, 2008 - 02:05pm PT

Karl, I never said Pakistaini's weren't bad people.

Pakistain...I just made a funny.

As far as the Jesus crap coming from a Hindu, well, it's crap. Not the teachings of 'the man' Jesus, but your selective use of his teachings.

Wouldn't you agree that this, the US, is the most liberated culture around? Too liberated IMO.

One of our problems is that the UN and the world has refused to enforse moral and humane laws with force around the world. Is that hypocritical to enforce humanity with bombs? That's debatable.

How do you stop persecution when they give you the finger, you punch them in the face until they comply. That's the American way. If we had more help and support it might be different. Until then it's bombs and knuckle-sandwiches.

Chaz

Trad climber

So. Cal.

Nov 15, 2008 - 02:15pm PT

If you want, Karl, we could run the entire country as directed by The New Testament.

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Nov 15, 2008 - 03:17pm PT

LEB, I think High was referring to Afghanistan mostly, since we've bombed two wedding parties in the past month or two. Here's the link on the last one.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,447205,00.html

"WECH BAGHTU, Afghanistan — An Afghan villager at the scene of an apparent U.S. bombing says 23 children and 10 women attending a wedding party are among 37 Afghans killed during a U.S. fight with the Taliban.

The U.S. military says it is investigating the reports but a spokesman said "if innocent people were killed in this operation, we apologize and express our condolences."

President Hamid Karzai has made an immediate demand of President-elect Barack Obama to prevent civilian casualties.

Kandahar province villager Abdul Jalil says he was hosting a wedding party for his niece when Taliban militants fighting U.S. forces took cover near his home. Jalil says 37 people were killed when U.S. warplanes later bombed the wedding party."

This is of course, is the same issue of not having boots on the ground (so we use air strikes) that you have repeatedly criticized Obama for mentioning as evidence he was Anti-military. (when he was speaking of putting more troops there)

Bluering writes

"Karl, I never said Pakistaini's weren't bad people.

Pakistain...I just made a funny."

Yeah, that and your other country slur prove that your "fair and balanced"

'As far as the Jesus crap coming from a Hindu, well, it's crap. Not the teachings of 'the man' Jesus, but your selective use of his teachings."

Not a Hindu bro, and would argue that my following of Jesus is as sincere as yours.

"Wouldn't you agree that this, the US, is the most liberated culture around? Too liberated IMO."

I know you feel that way and don't want you to "Taliban' us here either.

"One of our problems is that the UN and the world has refused to enforse moral and humane laws with force around the world. Is that hypocritical to enforce humanity with bombs? That's debatable. "

Your lucky they don't sanction the US! We're the ones dropping bombs on countries that we haven't declared war on (Syria and Pakistan) not to mention the illegal war on Iraq.

The world can see our double standard about bombing and morality. You can't

Peace

Karl

bluering

Trad climber

Santa Clara, Ca.

Nov 15, 2008 - 03:21pm PT

"We're the ones dropping bombs on countries that we haven't declared war on (Syria and Pakistan) not to mention the illegal war on Iraq. "

So you'd be down with it if we 'declared war'on 'em?

Illegal by what legal system?

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Nov 15, 2008 - 03:24pm PT

You're the one referencing the UN above Bluering. Illegal by international law.

But heh, I'd argue the the constitution requires congress to declare war and no such clear declaration is in force so plenty could argue we have no declared wars at the moment. I'd sure like to enforce the constitution on this.

Vietnam was called a "Police action" my ass!

PEace

karl

Minerals

Social climber

The Deli

Nov 15, 2008 - 03:38pm PT

What?!?! Almost 100 posts and not a single picture of a beautiful black rifle???

The latest acquisition, a custom-built M4…

Give my piece a chance!!!