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WBraun
climber
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"Walker Texas Resoler"
Hahahahaha LOL
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 4, 2008 - 11:37am PT
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C’mon Chief, depriving yourself of climbing in Josh ever again is a bit extreme. The climbing there is amazing, and all you have to do even during the busiest times is walk away from the road to find solitude.
Locker mentions bike rentals. I think the killer curbs will thin out the bike crowd.
Folks like Bookworm just drive me nuts. I am “dumping on the Park Service?” Ha!
How about they simply practice what they preach. This sign is 100 yds from the newly redesigned "ruins."
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
somewhere without avatars.........
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"Thank god they haven't got this idea in Egypt!! lol"
Funny you mention that, Riley... The ruins in Egypt are rather poorly treated and I distinctly remember thinking, "I wish they had a little more respect for their ruins and important antiquities. We'd never allow something to be treated like this..." I was thinking this as I was ascending into the tomb of the Great Pyramid and looking at the pipes and cables just kind of laying on the ground in the tunnels, and thinking about the people climbing all over the pyramid and the guy with the AK-47 who would only let you in if you gave him some baksheesh. It was really a mess. Apparently I was wrong, however, when I see the pics that Kris posted.
edit: and there have been thoughts of re-plastering the pyramids before, to try to make them look as they did centuries ago.
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craig mo
Trad climber
L.A. Ca.
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Is it true Uncle Willie's Health Food Store will now be selling pizza and beer?
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Perhaps they should run cattle through the Monument every winter, to eat everything green and restore the place to the way it looked when Ryan Ranch was in operation?
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TYeary
Mountain climber
Calif.
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Maybe we can just cement over all the "ruins" to preserve them. We can "re-do " Barker Dam and rent paddle boats.
Perhaps to save us from ourselves we should make a one-way loop road throught the "park" and somewhere around Sheep Pass install a hotel, eatery and giftshop.( privetly run for profit, of course.) Pave the hiking trails, put in emergencey phones, and trail/climbing quota limits. All could be justified in the name of preservation. I will spend far more time at Christmas Tree Pass until it too suffers the same fate.
Tony
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MisterE
Trad climber
My Inner Nut
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Todd? Is that a National Parks Ass?
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
somewhere without avatars.........
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"Perhaps they should run cattle through the Monument every winter, to eat everything green and restore the place to the way it looked when Ryan Ranch was in operation? "
Just so you know, there are quite a number of NP's that still have cattle running through them every year.... Point Reyes still has working ranches/dairies, for instance. Cattle still run through Capitol Reef, etc...
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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But you can't walk your dog more than a long-putt fron the road.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
somewhere without avatars.........
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"But you can't walk your dog more than a long-putt fron the road. "
True, Chaz. Shakespeare - my dog - doesn't think it makes sense either.
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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All the letters in the world will not convince the fools who manage Joshua Tree to use some simple common sense. They don't need a letter to tell them to wipe their ass when they finish crapping, do they?
What WILL limit their ability to do stupid things is to limit the money they get. Severely limit their money.
Next time you're told The Parks are going to close if we don't fork over more cash, call their bluff; "Go ahead. Close The Parks. Then run for re-election" they need to be told.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 4, 2008 - 03:27pm PT
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This is a bit off topic, but I can't help myself...
I just love this sign:
Four routes, and every single one is wrong. And not by a little bit either. Just good for a laugh...
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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I looked at that sign, too.
I just figured I had been off-route all this time.
I'm thinking the signs saying "NO BIKES" or "NO DOGS" are no more accurate than the Walk on the Wild Side sign.
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apogee
climber
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Yeah, there's a similar sign in front of Pixie Rock in Indian Cove that's wrong, too. Kinda makes you wonder if they ran any of this stuff past a real climber before going to print (apparently not).
How about shifting this discussion from bitching about how useless the NPS is, and move it towards solutions? I'm as frustrated as anybody, but like several have commented here, ranting online is a waste of time. If the only energy you are going to expend on issues like this is to complain, please STFU. How about some talk about ways to have a positive impact?
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Is this what they f-ed up?
The Ryan Ranch Ruins over near the Headstone?
(photos are from '97)
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 4, 2008 - 05:15pm PT
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I am with Apogee 100%. Thanks to Adam above for providing the Super's adress, and the valuable tip that an actual letter carries more weight than an email.
Since the Monument became a park we have seen some weak decisions. For example, the design of the new parking lots such as Echo T, where the lot was enlarged to include islands of desert plants. A smaller lot would have been better. And the kooky signs everywhere. And the very anti bicycle curbed shoulderless new roads. Now the redesign of old ruins.
I am going to start by writing the Super in the hope that there is not a plan to "restore" other old ruins in the park, such as Uncle Willie's and the Desert Queen mine site. These old structures should be left to disintegrate.
Perhaps someone can inform us, is there a single place - website or publication - which provides notification of the NPS' future plans for Joshua Tree Nat Park?
edit: Yes. Those are the same structures.
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Here's a little of the history of the ruins, in case anyone is interested, from Joshua Tree National Monument, A Visitor's Guide, by Robert Cates, 1984
Chapter 14
AROUND RYAN MOUNTAIN
FEATURES: Ryan Campground, early cemetery. Headstone Rock, Indian Cave, Ryan Mountain Trail.
The impressive whale back of Ryan Mountain was named for the owners of the Lost Horse Mine, Thomas and Jep Ryan, brothers who took up a homestead at Lost Horse Well at the western base of the mountain in order to secure a reliable water source for their mine operation. The old Ryan Ranch has been abandoned to the elements and vandals for some years. The main ranch house burned in 1978, an unfortunate loss, for this structure was constructed for the Ryans around the turn of the century by Sam Temple, the model for the murderer of Juan Alessandro in Helen Hunt Jackson's famous novel Ramona.
A PIONEER GRAVEYARD
Death and decay seem to pervade the old Ryan homestead. Within sight of the skeleton-like walls of the old ranch buildings are at least eight graves, scattered among the boulders and Joshua trees, some only faintly outlined by a ring of rocks with a larger cobble serving as a headstone. A few are denoted by the year of death painted on an adjacent boulder; only two are identified by name. The one marked "James" is the last resting place of Frank L. James, murdered in 1894 so that Jim McHaney could confiscate the Desert Queen Mine. Next to James is "Lopes", perhaps one of five Mexican miners who, according to legend, killed each other in a brawl and were buried in this makeshift cemetery.
The grave sites are only a short walk from Ryan Campground. From the east side of the campground proceed on foot across the open flats to the east, passing around the right (south) side of Headstone Rock, the prominent monolith precariously balanced on top of a rockpile about 100 yards distant. About 150 yards beyond Headstone Rock, continuing in the same general direction from the campground, is another cluster of low-lying boulders at the entrance to the old Ryan Ranch. The graves are clustered around the northern end of this outcrop.
RYAN MOUNTAIN AND INDIAN CAVE
In contrast to the spectral remains of the old Ryan Ranch, the 3-mile round-trip hike up Ryan Mountain is a reaffirmation of life. The pulse accelerates, the senses become more acute, and one may renew the acquaintance of lungs and muscles previously taken for granted. The view from the summit is one of the grandest in the Monument, perhaps made more so because it demands more effort than pushing on a gas pedal. In morning and late afternoon, when the shadows begin to lengthen, or on a summer night beneath a full moon, the surrounding desert reveals its greatest splendors to those who make the ascent.
The Ryan Mountain Trail begins at a parking area next to the Monument highway approximately 1/4-mile west of the Sheep Pass Group Campground turnoff. At the west end of the parking area is Indian Cave, a natural rock shelter that was used as a work site by the aboriginal inhabitants as proven by the presence of bedrock mortars and grinding slicks, these latter being smooth, flat faces worn on rock surfaces from repeated seed-grinding operations.
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