Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
|
|
I don't remember any 5.10 on the route, and all the
pitches are quite well protected or, like the Narrows,
not necessary to protect. For both me and Pratt (with whom
I did it last), the crux is the little slot about
fifty or so, if I recall, feet above the
Wilson Overhang, but one can easily put in a piece
and with a hand on a carabiner pull past the one tight
move... The bigger issue might be that one should be
prepared for the climb. Get in shape, get comfortable
with cracks and chimneys, don't just go up thinking
you can save yourself with aid. If you need to aid the
climb you might not be ready for it, really. I like Largo's
idea of thinking in higher terms, I mean, that it's 5.10
for a 5.11 climber. In the same sense it's a 5.9 but
for a 5.10 climber, really. It's a wonderful climb and
very friendly and straightforward mostly. But do the work
to prepare for it. Don't just think to add it to your tick
list of climbs you want to say you did. It's a far better
experience to go up and really have it in the right way.
This may sound a little pompous or condescending, but
I only mean to suggest that you should not think about aid.
Think about doing some shorter climbs, learn how to do cracks,
then go up there and let your consciousness spill over
one of the most beautiful and great climbs
in the Valley.
|
|
NigelSSI
Trad climber
B.C.
|
|
WOW!!!
Got to get in shape for this in the fall!
|
|
wildone
climber
Troy, MT
|
|
Well said Pat.
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
There wasn't any 5.10 on the route Pat, but there is now. It's called grade inflation and if the intent of grading is to indicate a climb's relative difficulty, you gotta give it 5.10- in today's market. Think about the way houses are appraised for value by doing comparables.
|
|
k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
|
|
Grade inflation?? What?
No way. It's just that the folks who originally did that thing, and graded it, had no idea how to grade things. They were way off.
Ollie, I agree, that short squeezy slot thing above the WO is a nasty piece. That's why I highly recommend taking the improbable 5.8 by-pass.
|
|
msiddens
Trad climber
Mountain View
|
|
Nutjob- the picts from the unplanned bivy report make me smile. Sufferage
|
|
Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
|
|
All due respect to the geezer contingent, but the route is not the same route, period. There is ample photo evidence...giant hold in the middle of left side Wilson is gone -departed the wall mid 90s, inside passage below the narrows is blocked. Don't believe me? Ask Steck or look at the pics.
The pitch below the narrows used to tunnel inside, at ~5.5, and rockfall has blocked that passage with the resulting alternative (not really an alternative, mandatory)now being the crux of the route at a reasonably graded .10- that is not particularly well protected at the business. Those old school "hardmen" also used to aid up a bolt ladder instead of climbing the 5.9 pitch after the flying buttress and had two freshly placed bomber rivets in the upper part of pitch below the narrows that were hanging halfway out of the wall with no other pro possible circa mid 2000s.
So yeah, when the Wilson had a big hold in the middle and went at 5.8, the pitch below the narrows was an easy chimney with pro, and you routinely skipped a pitch that was the only one I felt like I might fall on...it was probably 5.9. Today? two 5.10a-ish pitches.
But if it makes the geritol go down easier, by all means call it whatever you want...cause you know those weaklings today couldn't possibly match the derring-do of the REAL hardmen of days gone by. MUST be grade inflation.
|
|
le_bruce
climber
Oakland: what's not to love?
|
|
Top three routes I've done. Unforgettable climb.
I remember looking up at the Sentinel before having done the climb, and feeling a cool mix of intimidation and wonder. Now I gaze up there and feel that same mix, tripled.
|
|
bergbryce
Mountain climber
Oakland
|
|
A buddy and I were scheduled to do this last fall. I got to C4 after midnight as usual and of course, no you can't put a tent up, bivy behind that rock there... zero sleep on account of half a dozen others checking to see if that bivy spot were taken, bear boxes being opened and closed all night and oh not to mention being scared to death of the route.
So when the alarm went off at like 4:30 I reported I'd had maybe 45 minutes of sleep all night and didn't think this was a good day to do it. My partner was not too upset. We knew it was going to be difficult for us.
So yeah, I chickened out. It ain't going nowhere and maybe I'll get to it this year.
|
|
Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
|
|
elcapinyo...
I don't remember the need for any hold on the Wilson Overhang. It was
just a stem that got stranger and narrower. In fact I have a distinct
memory of having basically no holds, so one accepts the nature of
the pitch as a step handless stem mostly. No rivets have I ever
used on the lower Narrows. Never have I even heard of any. If
something like that existed it was certainly after my geezer time.
But when you say "blocked," do you mean rockfall
came down and blocked something? I hadn't heard about that. But where
on that slab below the narrows would rockfall grab? And where would
rockfall come from out of the Narrows? Maybe I don't understand what
it means to say "blocked." No one is trying to slight today's
climbers, and thank heaven I don't use geritol yet. Growing old
isn't fun, but then when we consider the option... I personally
like to hear from the older folk and want them to communicate
openly and honestly, even if I disagree with something they say.
I think Jim Donini is still fit and is one of those people who has
more or less crossed through several generations. He and I both have
seen grade escalation. I have agreed with some of it. At least two
routes Royal did in 1964, Final Exam and Athlete's Feat, have been
upgraded from 5.10 to 5.11. It's always nice to know we were climbing
harder than we thought we were, but remember also that when the early
guys did SS, such as Royal, he was in tennis shoes... Myself, I thought
that slot above the Wilson Overhang was hard, but I climbed it as on
offwidth on the outside. Pratt showed me how you can sneak in and wiggle
up through it. I thought the most strenuous pitch was the lower crack
of the Narrows, just after you move left off the slab (yes the slab has
one delicate move). Later I learned one can do a wide stem out around
the upper Narrows, out the way Salathe bolted, and it's about a 5.7 stem,
but very exposed. I wasn't aware of a variation around that lower slot
pitch, but now I know. We're always learning something new about
these climbs. Every generation is its own generation, and one
cannot be compared to another. I admire the guys who went up there in
tennis shoes and lousy ropes, full of youth and adventure, the Don Wilson
types... I might have climbed harder stuff in a later generation, but I
have never felt I surpassed anyone. Everything is always relative to its
own generation. The real point of Sentinel is the beauty and grandeur
of that great route, whatever the grade it's given.
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
Whether or not the route has been subject to grade inflation, what about that "relaxed fit" business?
|
|
mueffi 49
Trad climber
|
|
Wilson pitch Summer 1969 - first trip to the Valley... climbing "
Euro-Style" with mountain boots... chimneys we could climb - in cracks we died with those boots.
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
I've long heard that rockfall had changed the nature of some of the pitches ie W.O., since the last time I've done it.
time to go check it out, i guess.
|
|
Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
|
|
Why Coz? You and Ronnie James Dio gettin the band back together and need a guitar player or something? Like a Rainbow in the Dark, brah.
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
Pretty sure 'he' is just a made up internet artifact. An amalgam of the top 100 media stars, or something. A leftover from an old Cobol string, perhaps.
|
|
Bargainhunter
climber
Central California
|
|
Started up the Wilson Overhang, promptly crapped my pants and baled. I was not ready.
|
|
rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
|
|
It is now forty years or so since I've done the SS (twice). My ascents were back in the Iron Age before nuts, and before Wunsch's free route. We did the short A3 pitch off the Flying Buttress, looping hero loops on fragile moveable flakes.
The Wilson Overhang was, as I remember it, fairly graded at 5.8 in those days; flared but with features. The crux was a short shallow bottle-shaped crack higher up; the "neck" of the bottle only took about half of your chest and your feet were kicking around in the larger part below. I seem to remember foot-stacking making a difference the second time up it.
The Narrows was interesting but didn't seem like a big deal; a combination of arm-barring (which I learned from Pat Ament in Eldorado) with the left arm and mantling motions on ripples with a low right hand got you up into it without too much of a struggle. I don't remember any protection at all, however, not that is seemed possible to fall out of the thing.
Before our first time, Dick Williams warned me to turn my head upon entry so that I would be looking out at daylight, rather than having to grovel up peering left into the gloom. And I remember Pratt telling us to ignore Roper's various downgradings, mentioning which pitches he thought were 5.9.
I think our first time up it we needed 10 or 11 hours for the ascent, partially because we crawled into the back of all the chimneys and made them harder. The second time we were a little better (which is not to say I ever got any good at Yosemite offwidth) and made it up in maybe 7 or 8 hours.
Half a lifetime later, it remains perhaps my all-time favorite climb.
|
|
426
climber
☬
|
|
I have only done teh Chuey-Herbert and am not qualified to speak on SS (a serious gap in my wides, I know), however, TM hisself said that the route has changed for the stouter, i.e. W.O. has become stiffer over the decades...
perhaps he was yanking my chain in inimitable TM style, but as we were talking of routes getting harder, he also pointed @ the Reg Route on Fairview as a bit stiffer in 2006 than bitd, key foothold "ground down" by human geologic forces...
|
|
steveA
Trad climber
bedford,massachusetts
|
|
Climbed with Jim Donini at Indian Creek in October and he told that he did the NEB of Higher and the SS back to back, leading every pitch. That's some stamina for a 67 year old!
I did it with John Bouchard, back in 72, and I was skinny then. I thought the narrows were tight. Thank god for arm bars! I bet that I would find them really tight now.
I couldn't even get thru the Harding Slot on the W.C.
Definitely a classic route and great history to boot.
|
|
Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
|
|
rgold's recollection is close to mine. Dave Bircheff and I did the route in the early 70s, after Steve had found a way around the aid. We got up at 5:30, drove the wrong way on the road to the trailhead and were back in camp 4 by 8:00pm. We cleaned up and found something to eat at the Lodge.
I only remember a few bits of the climbing. I don't remember anything about the WIlson Overhang, but somewhere on the buttress there is a chimney that is wider on the inside than the outside. I stayed inside on the lead--tight but secure--and exited at the top. Dave climbed on the outside.
I remember down-climbing off of the Buttress and then climbing up in the cracks below the Narrows. I climbed as high as I could before belaying and did some back-cleaning of my protection so that Dave would have a reasonable belay. I led the Narrows and can still remember the arm bars and sideways climbing to get into it when I see pictures.
We were in great shape and could see why there were still climbers who thought the climb was 5.8 not 5.9. But, we were exhausted in those chimneys near the top. We thought it was a great climb but I never had any desire to climb it again.
In other discussions on ST, people who have done the route multiple times have reported that rockfall has changed the route and that a 5.10 rating is warranted.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!