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nb3000
Social climber
Oakland, CA.
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Sep 20, 2008 - 01:25pm PT
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We are borrowing money for this bailout from the same foreign sources we have already been borrowing from to fund our rampant consumption-oriented doings: China, Japan, and Europe. Working-age adults are paying for it - and will be paying for it (on TOP of debt we already had) for 60+ years. The political geezers running things try not to think about it; the sh!t ain't gonna hit the fan on thier watch.
Banks and insurers are being propped up because, they say, without it we really would have a 'meltdown' or depression. Which is probably true.
http://www.iousathemovie.com/
ABOUT THE MOVIE
Wake up, America! We're on the brink of a financial meltdown. I.O.U.S.A. boldly examines the rapidly growing national debt and its consequences for the United States and its citizens. Burdened with an ever-expanding government and military, increased international competition, overextended entitlement programs, and debts to foreign countries that are becoming impossible to honor, America must mend its spendthrift ways or face an economic disaster of epic proportions.
Throughout history, the American government has found it nearly impossible to spend only what has been raised through taxes. Wielding candid interviews with both average American taxpayers and government officials, Sundance veteran Patrick Creadon (Wordplay) helps demystify the nation's financial practices and policies. The film follows former U.S. Comptroller General David Walker as he crisscrosses the country explaining America's unsustainable fiscal policies to its citizens.
With surgical precision, Creadon interweaves archival footage and economic data to paint a vivid and alarming profile of America's current economic situation. The ultimate power of I.O.U.S.A. is that the film moves beyond doomsday rhetoric to proffer potential financial scenarios and propose solutions about how we can recreate a fiscally sound nation for future generations.
Creadon uses candid interviews and his featured subjects include Warren Buffett, Alan Greenspan, Paul O'Neill, Robert Rubin, and Paul Volcker, along with the Peter G. Peterson Foundation's own David Walker and Bob Bixby of the Concord Coalition, a Foundation grantee.
Pointedly topical and consummately nonpartisan, I.O.U.S.A. drives home the message that the only time for America's financial future is now.
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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Sep 20, 2008 - 01:46pm PT
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There are two positions you can take: get a grip; settle down and go climbing...or...WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE! I'll take the first. Well, that is, as soon as I heal up.
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nb3000
Social climber
Oakland, CA.
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Sep 20, 2008 - 01:53pm PT
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is that about right?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Sep 20, 2008 - 02:34pm PT
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"HEHE, the answer is ALWAYS the tax payer, and that is YOU. "
It has nothing to do with taxes since taxes won't be raised to pay for anything. It's just printed money, perhaps borrowed from the Chinese (but who knows?) It comes from your kids (unless we just default on our debts or devalue the dollar so it's worth nothing.
the way money is being printed or borrowed in this country shows the government sees the end is near and so doesn't care to preserve what value is left in the dollar.
It's like somebody who has 20,000 left free on their 80,000 line of credit, and is losing their job and knows they will never pay, so they charge up the final 20,000
Peace
Karl
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Sep 20, 2008 - 02:56pm PT
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RE:
"With all our consumer dollars going to China, the US is losing product, and gaining financial institutions. "
well, I have been there done that,
and as product guy, going offshore
20 years ago was about the only way
to get things done since, it seemed
dealing w/ the US textile industry
was futile.
Still, I agree w/ the fiscal ramifications
of the above.
And the simple fact is; we can manufacture more
here, including sewing/textile stuff but,
in the case of the latter, our collective
attitude as a nation has to change toward
the people doing the sewing, as a start.
Just my 2 cents...
great discussion...
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
http://tinyurl.com/4oa5br
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Sep 20, 2008 - 04:15pm PT
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What is kind of scary is every interview I have watched on the telly always ends up the same.
The expert gets asked "What do you think is going to happen?"
And all of them seem to agree: "I don't know!"
I mean when you have phd's from Stanford with ten zillion years of experience, and they have not a clue, that is pretty scary.
The reasson being that the stock market is based 80 percent on emotion and 20 percent logic.
So the public has a huge say in our own future.
There is one Silver Lining to this whole thing.
Now, 9-11 means nothing, as far as someone trying to ruin the US Economy.
We f*#ked it up much worse all by ourselves.
What has just happened makes Ben Laden's little trick seem like a speck of dandruff on a Giant Gorilla.
Sorry Benny, nice try, but we got you beat.
But I still want to sh#t in your soup.
Oh, the troops will come home, but to what?
McCain is smart to railroad his own campaign, who would want to tzke over this mess?
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Sep 20, 2008 - 04:18pm PT
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RE:
"We f*#ked it up much worse all by ourselves. "
Bullseye.
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Sep 20, 2008 - 04:33pm PT
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"Where does this money come from?"--WBraun.
Just guessing here, Werner, but Alaskan and Off Shore oil is about all the US has to offer China, Japan, and Europe. Everything kind of makes sense and fits together when global oil is factored in.
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
http://tinyurl.com/4oa5br
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Sep 20, 2008 - 04:41pm PT
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Did you see that author on Bill Moyer last night?
He said we have seven sharks in the tank.
First time in a hunfred years every thing is aligned
Let's see how many I remember, might need some help here...
1)High energy costs
2)inflation
3)no lending
4)banks failing
5)high unenjoyment
6)need help
7) need help
OK, I found it:
"seven sharks in the tank with the economy... first is financialization because we're so dependent on this industry that's sort of half lost its marbles... second is that you have this huge buildup of debt, absolutely unprecedented anywhere in the world... third is you've now got home prices collapsing... fourth is you've got global commodity inflation building up... fifth is you've got flawed and deceptive government economics statistics... sixth is that you've got what they call peak oil where the world is, to some extent, running out of oil... last thing is the collapsing dollar... whenever you get this sort of package in one decade, you got a big one... another variation but on a par with the Thirties... The British were absolutely top dog in the world in 1914. Two world wars and 35 years later, they were having, after World War II, they were having food rationing, the pound sterling crashed, dukes were giving guided tours of their castles because they couldn't afford to maintain them otherwise. Doesn't take long. And I'm afraid the United States is coming right into that period which marks a couple of decades coming up that are going to be very difficult for America."
Sheesh, I never thought I would miss Nixon.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Sep 21, 2008 - 03:59am PT
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NO Karl, it has everything to do with tax payers.
Unless we default and screw up the whole world, which we probably won't do.
So, tax dollars will go to pay this off at the expense of stuff we really need.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Sep 21, 2008 - 12:07pm PT
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"NO Karl, it has everything to do with tax payers.
Unless we default and screw up the whole world, which we probably won't do.
So, tax dollars will go to pay this off at the expense of stuff we really need."
Sorry, I don't see us getting near a balanced budget where any of these new debts from War and Greed even approach a chance of being paid off. I see it at putting straws on the backs of the kids that they could never bear.
Hoping for a miracle
Peace
Karl
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Sep 21, 2008 - 12:49pm PT
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Well that's right, your kids will be paying taxes to pay this off FOREVER, and it's just like the credit card companies love those people who will make minimum payments forever.
But that is still putting the burden on the tax payer, just over generations, UGH.
Welcome to welfare for the rich. Give em everything, then bail em out when they screw up, and still find a way to screw the little guy.
It's the republican way.
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nb3000
Social climber
Oakland, CA.
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Sep 21, 2008 - 01:10pm PT
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... in 2000 the 10-year budget balance was projected to be a $5.6 billion surplus ... after 3 tax cut packages passed by August 03, the 10-year balance was projected at a $1.4 trillion deficit.
By 2014 - five years from now - that deficit amounts to $90,000 per household. Money that you and yours will owe to the Fed. And thats not even accounting for the numbers incurred for this mass corporate bailout.
Yes this debt is foisted onto the backs of 'taxpayers' but its not just simple as that. With tax cuts that burden falls onto working-age folks in the form of payroll tax hikes or exemptions for the retired.
... and dirtineye, come on you know better than that ... it ain't JUST the Republicans ... Dems have their hands in the cookie jar too.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Sep 21, 2008 - 01:16pm PT
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Sorry NB, WHO controlled the house and senate for 2000-2006?
Actually it was longer than that, going back to 94, but let's not be picky.
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nb3000
Social climber
Oakland, CA.
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Sep 21, 2008 - 01:36pm PT
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True, Republican majority.
But the Dems are supposed to be the opposition here? I mean there ARE still Dems sitting in a nevertheless Repub-controlled congress, right?
Both parties are guilty. One more than the other? ... yeah I agree ...
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Sep 21, 2008 - 02:14pm PT
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RE:
"By 2014 - five years from now - that deficit amounts to $90,000 per household. Money that you and yours will owe to the Fed. And thats not even accounting for the numbers incurred for this mass corporate bailout. "
so, let's see - you mean the American public are
actually going to have to start paying for decades
of excess and irresponsible choices, now?
wow, bummer.
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