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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 5, 2008 - 03:32pm PT
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It's rare that exactly what happened is determined in these kinds of events. Maybe the participants will have some comments, but it is unlikely they will have accurate memories of the details.
I've done that route a few times, although not recently. As I remember it the belay ledge in question is fairly large with a bit of a lip / bumps on the outside edge and the "Crocodiles Throat" opening in the middle. The next pitch starts up a bit of a flare.
What I'm guessing happened is she was belaying fairly tight to anchors in the back of the flare which would limit her abillity to move to the side. When he came off and blew out the piece he landed between her and the rock and across the anchor almost directly on the strong point. That would place huge impact loads on the anchor from an unexpected direction and also slam her violently into the rock.
Even when the pitch doesn't start off difficult it's just as important to set gear and situate the belay to protect the belayer as well as the leader. In some situations that might even mean forgoing a placement or a more comfortable belay if it would decrease chances of clobering your belayer.
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
In the mountains... somewhere...
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I think it is also important as a belayer to be able to keep yourself safe. If the anchor the leader sets isn't any good, set a good one. If the leader falls, prepare to get out of the way as much as possible. Sometimes this might even mean tieing in long and jumping off the ledge. Common sense is one of the things that seem most often missed in these situations. Bring that and you are much safer than with a shiny new rack.
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That Darn French Guy
Sport climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Well I hope they rest and that his blood clot will stabilize and become safe for him to walk out of the hospital. They're very lucky to just be alive apparently.
So if I read the topo right, Captain Hook is a 5.7/G on suicide rock, in Riverside CA (never been there).
Crazy... 3 failures, and with #1, #3 BD cams and a nut?!
I wonder why it happened...
Did the #1 rotate/walk/turn as he passed the piece?
Did he kick it by accident?
Were the placements tricky?
Was the anchor equalized properly?
Was he using quickdraws instead of slings?
Were they experienced in placing gear?
If not were they mentored by experienced trad climbers?
Did any piece fail or did they all pull out?
If failures, where was the gear from, in what condition...
The accident warrants some investigation:
To me all the gear used in the wall should have been bomber and sustained a fall. I remember seeing a guy falling repeatedly 20ft above a blue alien as a 1st piece in the needles, and it took 4 or 5 repeated falls before the piece broke. 'took photos then too. :) So I'd expect a #1, or even a #3 to be real solid.
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jstan
climber
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An Alien broke? And did so after several big falls?
Pardon me. But that is worse than having a manufacturing problem. Now we are talking fundamental design.
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tooth
Mountain climber
B.C.
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Congratulations to the guys who stabilized the broken neck and didn't paralyze the patient! I'd be mighty thankful for those skills.
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That Darn French Guy
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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> Congratulations to the guys who stabilized the broken neck
+1 !
> An Alien broke? And did so after several big falls? Pardon me. But that is worse than having a manufacturing problem. Now we are talking fundamental design.
Don't exactly remember if only the biner blew while the piece pulled or the cam broke... It's however not surprising after overstretching the rope and the cam repeatedly without rechecking the gear: You increase the impact force beyond specs. A blue has a low kN rating compared to any regular size cam. The discussion dates from '05 and was here http://www.rockclimbing.com/photos/Trad/Big_whipper_on_Atlantis_57561.html. BTW, I love and use Aliens. Let's not go there :).
> Captain Hook is a cakewalk. I onsight soloed it.
... And Reardon solo'ed what you sweat on. These were beginners climbing their level. Have perspective and consideration. :)
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Llama
Big Wall climber
The bubble that is Irvine, CA
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Ok Juan deFucNut... we get it. You already said earlier in the forum that you solo'd the route... congratulations. I'm glad you are THAT cool
If only we could all aspire to such heights
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Juan de Fuca (aka Jeff Batten) should know enough not to troll in a thread about an accident where 2 people almost died. But it seems he can't resist.
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Sabrina
climber
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Thanks, Llama for your posts.
I just met Claire at school in a Geology (actually meteorology) class last week. She just struck me as an amazingly radiant soul, someone I'd really enjoy being around. When she wasn't there this week, I was thinking, "Gee, I hope she didn't drop. She was so cool!!!"
I was shocked and saddened to read about the accident in the LA Times this morning...just really shocked that such a brilliant life could come so close to ending. I am so thankful that she and Trevor are going to be alright.
Would you be so kind to pass on a message for me to Claire? Let her know that I really will be thinking about her and praying for a speedy recovery. And I hope to see her soon. She can have all my notes. :)
Sabrina
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Grant Meisenholder
Trad climber
CA
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Hey Juan-
Ya wanna shut up all us nay-sayers that are calling your troll b.s? Post a video of yourself actually soling the thing. Simple as that.
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Llama
Big Wall climber
The bubble that is Irvine, CA
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Thanks Sabrina, I'll let her know!
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Lost Arrow
Trad climber
The North Ridge of the San Fernando
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I would have to ropesolo it these days.
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Hey Juan, you remind me of that presidential candidate, "did'ja know I was a prisoner of war?"
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Llama
Big Wall climber
The bubble that is Irvine, CA
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Hahaha ohhhh MFE, you hit that nail on the head
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Good to see the lame comments pulled!
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Gobi
Trad climber
Orange CA
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Who brags about soloing 5.7?
And your not Reardon so dont brag for him...
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Sep 13, 2008 - 10:01am PT
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Another bump--good wishes for Claire & Trevor.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Sep 13, 2008 - 11:26am PT
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hoping that the climbers are well on their way down the difficult path to recovery.
I suggest that the analysis of the accident might be moved from the thread, since I imagine it would be difficult (it would be for me) to both derive the positive energy of the well wishers from the unavoidably negative energy of a critical analysis of what happened...
...we had a thread over a year ago regarding this sort of thing...
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=319605
perhaps it could be revived (or another started) and some of the critical comments moved there... and leave this thread as a place for us to leave encouraging, uplifting posts that would be helpful, and less likely to be interpreted as hurtful.
Just a thought.
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SuperTopo on the Web
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Not sure about this but being the first piece it is possible that the rope may have been running up form Claire at an angle such that the cam would walk up slightly as Trevor loaded it causing it to potentially fail.
Let us know!