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This thread has been locked |
L
climber
Ocean of dreams....
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May 14, 2008 - 01:51pm PT
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"You have opened up a can of worms by attacking me personally over a small point of written rules vs unwritten.
Obviously YOU are the little bitch who is acting like a 12 year old. What kind of response did you expect with those kinds of comments?
You started it, I will finish it.
If you didn't want to get into a flame war, maybe you should have thought before you opened your mouth and insulted me."
Jeez Shack, threats before lunch?
You know as well as I that I did not insult you. I called you on your game, and now you're chagrinned.
This outrage of yours is so out of proportion to the posts.
Edit: But I could be wrong.
Perhaps I was having a bad night, Shack. And reading so many posts that seemed to be forgetting what a privilege it is to have this site, I got upset and took it out on you.
Nita is such a sweetheart, and she obviously likes you, so I'm thinking I did misread what you wrote. She wouldn't like a jerk.
So I will apologize if what I said sounded like an insult. It was meant tongue-in-cheek, but I can see how you not knowing my sense of humor might have taken it wrong.
If you still want to have a flame-war, well, OK--that's your perogative. But I can't participate in it. Too much war everywhere else.
However, if you'd like to forgive me for so obviously upsetting you, then that would be great. Whatever works for you.
(Hi Nita!)
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Topic Author's Reply - May 14, 2008 - 02:00pm PT
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What game, L? You are hallucinating something that is not there.
Nita,
Name one point she made that has any relevance.
How to act at someone's house is not relevant.
Trying to belittle me is not relevant.
Attempting in any way to make this about me is irrelevant.
The only thing that would be relevant is something like..
"Yes, there are no written rules and I don't think we need them,
as most people know what is acceptable or not. I think the current system of the moderators making decisions on a case by case basis works just fine"
I would have no problem with that opinion, in fact, I would agree with that statement.
If L is so smart, fun, funny etc. why does she continue to display her childish ignorance and insist on making this about me? I didn't get banned. I didn't "break the rules".
Why is she even referring to me, as though I had some part in
the offending thread.
I never even posted on it.
So get over yourself L, and either add something to the discussion or continue to make yourself look foolish.
If you want to start a fight with me, you'd better pack a lunch.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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May 14, 2008 - 02:04pm PT
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L - I didn't read Shack's OP with anywhere near the passive-aggressive inflection you seemed to feel. Nor did I comprehend his response to you as being a vicious as you seemed to find it. Your post, to which he responded....did....seem to have a tone of nastiness to it, though, and I kind of thought his reply was about what one might expect to receive.
In general(meaning the following is not directed at you, L) - I don't understand why ANYONE is getting all freaked out just because someone suggested it would be beneficial to have an idea just as to what this site wants to have included or excluded!
I DO realize that some Supertopians thought that Lockers thread was inappropriate. I ALSO realize that some Supertopians didn't feel that way! So.....why does one of those groups feel that they are in the right? I am guessing that - and this is key, I think - had nobody emailed the admins and complained about the thread, Locker would not have been banned nor the thread pulled.
Key, because.....Lockers thread went on for DAYS with no admin input. One MIGHT believe that means....they are OK with it!
HENCE - the suggestion of rules or guidelines...doesn't seem....to me at least, to be such a strange suggestion!
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L
climber
Ocean of dreams....
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May 14, 2008 - 02:04pm PT
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Shack,
Please read my edit. Thanks.
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Topic Author's Reply - May 14, 2008 - 02:10pm PT
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Thank you Happie.
L, I was never looking for a fight. I never do, but it found me.
If you are sincere, then I would accept your apology and I would also offer mine.
Yes, I can get a little bent out of shape when attacked by someone who doesn't know me, especially when I was just trying to make a minor point.
I do apologize.
I do not want a flame war, only some discourse about a subject that has affected a friend.
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Prod
Social climber
Charlevoix, MI
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May 14, 2008 - 02:18pm PT
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Quitters!
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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May 14, 2008 - 02:36pm PT
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anyone get blown yet?
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dirtbag
climber
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May 14, 2008 - 02:41pm PT
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And if so, can someone post the pics?
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L
climber
Ocean of dreams....
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May 14, 2008 - 02:44pm PT
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Thanks Shack. Nita's right to like you.
Look, this is the deal and why I said what I said.
Let me preface it with the fact that I used to like Locker and his posts quite a bit. He has insight and is genuinely funny, and a nice man on the inside.
Something happened a while back which I won't go into, but he started bombing my threads with nudie photos. To the point that I've had to delete threads--which Crimpie actually thanked me for once--because they'd turned into Locker porn threads. And he was posting those things on other threads, too--threads that were not his own.
When Crowley got banned, he stopped for a while...then slowly started doing it again. Now Shack, you may think continuous posts of almost naked women with their butts in the air and tits hanging out is nothing to get offended about--you're a guy and guys have a different opinion on stuff like that. I don't have a problem with guys being guys--trust me. I like guys who are real men (stupid cliche but soooooo true).
But this forum isn't the place for T&A shots posted up whenever Locker or whomever wants to offend someone. Even you said you've never posted something like that...and I believe there's a reason for it. It wasn't just women getting offended by the continuous disrespect. (There are plenty of online porn sites for anyone who needs that sort of stuff--that's where much of Locker's posts belonged in my opinion.)
So when you said you didn't know the "rules", particularly since you posted on the Locker Voting thread about "misguided individuals" who were offended, I just interpretted it as condoning a form of blatant sexism that, as a woman, I have struggled against my entire life. It seemed you were attacking Chris and his web master for capriciousness, and I reacted rather harshly.
Again, my apologies, Shack.
(Besides, I need to save all my fighting energy for Rokjox because the poor guy is going through a really tough time and needs wimpy Cali suckers to beat on. :-))
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L
climber
Ocean of dreams....
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May 14, 2008 - 02:53pm PT
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Rocky,
You're in way too good of a mood. What happened?
Did you get the job?????
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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May 14, 2008 - 02:55pm PT
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Darn, L
I'm gonna have to have Lynne redo the programs now.
L vs. Rockjox. . . it just doesn't have the same
appeal as L vs. Shack. . .
There goes the beer concession. . .
:-)
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Topic Author's Reply - May 14, 2008 - 03:11pm PT
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L, you make a good point about Locker bombing threads with photos,
and I don't think that's right either.
Sorry he did that to you.
I'm not really trying to defend anything Locker has done, and the "misguided" part was intended to mean that people writing to the admins for Lockers head on a platter for that thread seems misguided in that I believe there could have been another way of dealing with the problem other than simply calling for his banishment.
I like Locker...maybe not everything he does, but I think he is a good guy with a good heart..
I just think expecting everyone to just know where the line is that you shouldn't cross is a little like having no posted speed limit and expecting everyone to know how fast it's ok to drive.
I don't think porn belongs on this forum anymore than I think all the political stuff needs to be here.
Besides I can surf porn all I want from my computer and much better porn at that without offending anyone.
So no, it is not appropriate here.
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L
climber
Ocean of dreams....
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May 14, 2008 - 03:34pm PT
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Shack,
I didn't ask for Locker's banishment...or "suspension", as RJ put it. And it surprised me as much as anyone when I read about it.
Chris and his team are amazingly lenient with so much that goes on here, I can only guess that finally, it was the last straw.
The one thin mint, sir...just one thin mint explanation.
Anyhow, I've got to get Rocky riled up or he'll go into a decline, so Shack, again...Peace. Oh, and one more thing...
You did look good in that black leather body harness and neon thong...:-) (Yes, blatantly sexists...sorry.)
Hey Rocky...
Here Wolfie! Here Wolfie wolfie wolf!
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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May 14, 2008 - 03:41pm PT
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Ahem. . .
That sounds pretty inappropriate to me, L. . .
:-)
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Topic Author's Reply - May 14, 2008 - 03:50pm PT
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I never thought for a second that you were one of those calling for Lockers head.
And as I have said I don't blame Chris or RJ in any way for doing what they think is right for their business.
As for the leather outfit, I only use that for free climbing now, as hanging belays cause chaffing. ;)
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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May 14, 2008 - 04:06pm PT
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'OT' means off topic? Not 'on?'
Damn!
I think that we are all used to rules, stated or not, as climbers--our whole sport is defined by rules. But putting the rule making for ST on Chris is wrong headed.
Based on Chris’ comments over the years, he does not care much one way or the other if there is a forum taking up his time and resources. My guess is that if the forum is mostly climbing related and has interesting climbing posts and posters, he will support it. If it drifts away from that, I cannot see that he has a reason to provide a climber’s forum.
Given this, what should matter to ST users is who else is posting, or more pointedly who is not posting. Many more folks read ST than actively post. The potential posters on ST are the folks that will respond to the type of threads that interest them. Like moguls on ski slopes, once a trend starts, it just gets bigger. (ChrisCat can cut them off if he has a reason to.)
I think the best part of ST is that so many folks post. But, I have not had much luck in convincing my old friends and climbing partners to post up and share their old photos and stories on ST. Although they will dip in as they see fit, many have concluded that they do not want to actively participate. I try to point out that they don't have to respond to threads that do not interest them and that they will not be harassed on the threads that do interest them (this was not the case in the early years of ST). But it is a tough sell. Guilt by unwanted association has a stronger sway. Why bother?
I think posing the question in terms of 'our mother's house' is apt. Maybe a better way would be to think in terms of a gathering of 50+ years of climbers, all with totally different points of view on just about everything but who share a love of climbing, a good laugh, and a general agreement that climbing status does not allow anyone to pull rank on anyone else. In that setting and without a monitor, self restraint against silent rules is the only thing that works.
Most of us would not try to dominate a real room as big as ST with really loud, in-our-face, carrying on. But something about the internet makes folks forget that while their posting is not directed to anyone personally the person reading it is taking it personally. In real life, if we get too loud, but quickly excuse ourselves and move it to the parking lot, no one is offended. But if we are not paying attention to ourselves, or do not care, or go so far as to bluntly announce to the room that we are not breaking any rules or the other participants are just prudes, or squares in need of hearing aids, and can generally go off themselves, then the universal rule for all guests kicks in and folks just move to the door.
ST is not an interesting place if the posters cannot be bothered to practice a measured level of self restraint--the guests that are leaving will leave quietly, never asking anyone else to tone it down and party the way they like. Why bother?
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dougs510
Social climber
down south
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May 14, 2008 - 04:17pm PT
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Nice call Roger.
I lurk here all the time and mostly just avoid the threads that take on this tone. But some of the things here got me to laugh so I kept reading. I've been flamed here and have flamed others. I just choose not to participate in that practice anymore. I'm not getting any younger and don't have time to paste pictures together, or argue with some stranger on the internet... that being said, please, you guys keep on flaming!! IT'S FUNNY.
But beware.... don't forget those quick whited ones of the past:
The Ghost of Dr. Kodos. (He was going to shoot me and burn me in the fire like "The Pig that I am").
Pappy, Yikes... His rants go on and on
These dudes will cut your legs off at the knees.
Best to let the sleeping dog stay asleep.
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maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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May 14, 2008 - 04:22pm PT
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Roger, you hit the nail on the head. I think all it takes is common sense, some decency and respect. I don't like the analogy of my mother's house, though. I had to be way too nice, had to watch my language too closely and didn't feel I could disagree strongly.
I keep coming back to the campfire analogy. Each thread here is its own fire. You approach it, sit and listen for a while and if the topic and the people interest you, join in. If the conversation begins to bore or offend you, go somewhere else.
Don't be an ass or you'll be asked to leave.
Around the fire, the topics are a little freer, the language coarser and the humor a bit raunchy. But, just like you probably wouldn't pull out your well-thumbed, sticky-paged copy of Hustler and show it around the campfire, you probably shouldn't do that stuff here.
With respect,
Mal
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L
climber
Ocean of dreams....
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May 14, 2008 - 04:42pm PT
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Rocky,
You're getting worse than Lois used to be about thread-drift.
Yes, it was my fault for trying to improve your day.
Now please, remove the wolf carnage post and either put it on the wolf thread, or the coyote thread, or the mormon isolationsts thread...you know, somewhere safe where we can really get cha going and have fun.
This is a nice campfire and I'm loving the guys' stories and perspectives.
Capice? :-) :-) :-)
Thank you.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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May 14, 2008 - 04:54pm PT
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So now girls in bathing suits and underwear is porn?
What about catalogs for women's underwear and beach wear, are they porn too?
Buncha prudes.
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