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Rowan
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, CA
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May 16, 2008 - 04:31pm PT
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Where can you get Diamox? Do you just get your MD to write a prescription?
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headintheclouds
climber
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May 16, 2008 - 06:47pm PT
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Thanks for the summarization Matisse; interested in your research. Never come down with HAPE, have managed HACE though.
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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May 20, 2008 - 06:28pm PT
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Matisse, thank you for your detailed and very scientific analysis. So your response to my question is
So the answer is yes it will.
Which, if I understand correctly, even short visits to altitude, like my bi-weekly runs will help my body adjust at altitude sooner than most. I notice if I skip a week, the endurance lowers a bit and I have to stop and lower the heart rate.
Thanks again,
Jude
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crazyfingers
climber
CA
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May 20, 2008 - 09:04pm PT
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Forget about the tea and get some fresh coca leafs. Chew a big mass of them and you'll feel like superman.
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matisse
climber
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May 21, 2008 - 09:35am PT
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headintheclouds..thanks. I'll be posting when we need victims er I mean subjects.
I'm on the road at present, I'll try to post about some of the other issues like pressure breathing and drugs for altitude in the next few days.
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jbar
Mountain climber
Atl,GA
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Just my 2 cents. Lots of interesting points being made here. A lot of people offering the best advice which is being well hydrated and aclimatize slowly with a series of making altitude and descending and, of course, if you take a hit then come down. I'm always interested in suppliments too though. Ginko, garlic, alpha-ketoglutarate and the other naturals are always in my kit. I hope DR keeps getting positive results with the diamox (acetazolomide). Like others on here I've had bad luck with it too. Took it on a climb with an experienced partner. I started getting tired and headachy around 16,000. When I pulled it out before bedtime my buddy looked at it and frowned. The next day I felt horrible. Tried it again 2 nights later with the same affect. Didn't feel like moving but I had to. My headache didn't go away, my stomach felt crappy and I did experience some of the tingling though I kinda liked that. Like anything I guess some of us react differently. The most interesting point I think this topic brings to mind is the quality and class of client being guided. Shouldn't these people know about HAPE, AMS, etc?? I brought my own drugs to test out. If I hadn't and someone I didn't intimately know handed me a pill I knew nothing about I wouldn't take it unless I was already sick and needed help.
Do any of the experts out there know if a person that doesn't train will acclimatize faster than a person that stays fit. If so I've got some potato chip bags to hit before my next trip.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Jun 30, 2009 - 01:48pm PT
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bump for good climbing information
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Double D
climber
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Jun 30, 2009 - 03:18pm PT
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Coca-leaf tea is amazing for the onset of altitude sickness so if you ever find yourself way south it's a tip worth remembering.
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spyork
Social climber
A prison of my own creation
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Jun 30, 2009 - 03:46pm PT
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I suspect Munge bumped this because of my email. I dont think I really have anything new to add to this thread, except that I am one of the people who is susceptible to AMS at relatively low altitudes (10K).
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Jun 30, 2009 - 04:02pm PT
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JBAR wondered "Do any of the experts out there know if a person that doesn't train will acclimatize faster than a person that stays fit. If so I've got some potato chip bags to hit before my next trip."
As someone who has done a lengthy post-doc at the Donald Whillans School of Alpine and Expeditionary Training and Medicine I can say without hesitation that chips and beer are all you need unless you want to indulge in the school's founder's choice of fag.
I thought it was a long forgone conclusion that fitness had little effect upon acclimatization. I've seen super-fit people get HAPE. Diamox is definitely a no-no in the literature, is it not? Rolaids and Tums are the only thing I take.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jun 30, 2009 - 08:08pm PT
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When we did the Harding rte on Keeler Needle, my wife gave me a scrip for diamox which I filled. But, after comparing the side effects vs the potential benifits both in the lit and in consultation with my medical staff, (wife), "yeah, it's a toss up." I opted not to take it. I trained@ 'Altitude'; soloing the east Face and running down on the trail and running Mt Rose on the week before our ascent. I did fine except for a vague headache on the hike over Whitney to the mtneer's descent. I lived @ 5k' then, though.
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matisse
climber
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Diamox is definitely a no-no in the literature, is it not? Rolaids and Tums are the only thing I take.
Diamox has LOTS of supporting data in the literature. It may prevent HAPE as well.
Whether you want to take a pill to climb is a different issue though :)
this is a pretty good lay tutorial on altitude illness including AMS treatment (i may have posted it a year ago-I don't remember).
http://www.ismmed.org/np_altitude_tutorial.htm
Rolaids and Tums will do absolutely nothing for altitude illness
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rhyang
climber
SJC
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I'm going to ask my doc about a diamox prescription. I never bothered before, but after breaking my neck and a cervical spinal cord bruise (lesion) I'm finding myself weaker and more out of breath at altitude (above 12 to 13 thousand feet), even after several nights of acclimatization.
In rehab I was told that part of the autonomic nervous system (sympathetic I believe) is routed through the upper spinal cord, above T6 (my injury is below C4). I wonder if these 'carotid chemoreceptors' are also routed through there ..
I don't have problems with sleeping (AFAIK), appetite or sickness these days (as long as I acclimatize slowly enough) .. it just seems as though I am weaker and slower.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Thanks for bumping this thread. I missed it and have a friend who is dealing with this issue now and wanted more info. Her doc suggested that she start with a lower dose 2 days before her trip and then raise the dose on the day of the trip. This was to help avoid side affects. She is very fit, but is sensitive to altitude. It gets better over time, but she rarely has the time to adjust. Like many she hates taking meds and feels she is cheating, but she just doesn't have the time to begin acclimatization earlier.
What great Info this thread has. Thanks to those who contributed.
John
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rhyang
climber
SJC
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Thanks for the notes on dosage Jim !
I'm no expert on neuroscience, but I get the impression there is some pretty strange wiring going on. For example, recent research at Stanford indicates that the pineal gland (which produces melatonin) is wired through the cervical spinal cord somehow .. there is some correlation between complete quadriplegia and sleep troubles, and this could be a reason why.
Also, the cervical region is the neck, not the chest (that would be the thoracic area).
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rhyang
climber
SJC
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Thanks again Jim -- you are the googlemaster ! :)
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