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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Jan 28, 2005 - 02:26pm PT
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well, then I guess we just sit on our thumbs and watch it continue to happen year after year until no route maintains it's original charcater. what a great prospect!
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 28, 2005 - 02:37pm PT
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No … don’t worry about that, worry about, YOU. If you don’t know who you are, then how the hell would you fix the problem. The problem isn’t outside of us.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Jan 28, 2005 - 02:55pm PT
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I'm not worried about me...I DON'T PLACE BOLTS.
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coiler
Trad climber
yosemite
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Jan 29, 2005 - 11:32am PT
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Here's the bottom line... If you're going to free an A4 pitch, do it on the A4 gear. If you feel like you need to drill on said pitch you're not ready to free climb it. If you DO drill on it, you're chickensh#t, no matter how many spray articles you've written or how many sponsors you carry. It's embarasing to hear these so called "profesional" climbers standing behind their drilling on routes put up in the 60's and 70's. Does it mean that much to these guys to get into the mags and have everybody adore them? What a bunch of Chumps!
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Blowboarder
Boulder climber
Sandpoint, Idaho
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Jan 29, 2005 - 11:55am PT
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Coiler, spot on. Agree 100%
As for Joe Rockstar, it means there livelyhood. No news equals dropped sponsorships. Companies don't sponsor people for their achievements but rather their exposure and noteriety. It's just a trickle down from the Hollywood set, the climbing media doesn't operate any different from the mainstream media.
Hot names sell sh#t, regardless of how they got known.
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akclimber
Trad climber
Eagle River, AK
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Jan 29, 2005 - 12:54pm PT
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Werner, thank you for making sense. I totally agree with this quote from Walt Shipley that you posted: " That the first ascent party has free reign to do whatever they want….even if it’s insane. Does that mean they now own the thing? Your dreaming. Some will respect that and others will too, but they also believe they too have the same rights the first ascent party had."
I personally don't place bolts. I might in the future, but as of now I haven't. However, if an idividual wants to place a bolt to protect against a possibly X fall while freeing something, that is not a problem.
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 29, 2005 - 01:17pm PT
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Coiler says:
“Here's the bottom line... If you're going to free an A4 pitch, do it on the A4 gear.”
“If you DO drill on it, you're chickensh#t”
Since when are you the authority on chickensh_t? Playground trash talk....whatsha gona do when some guy takes you up on it some day, .... invites you to the knuckle sandwich lunch.
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Blowboarder
Boulder climber
Sandpoint, Idaho
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Jan 29, 2005 - 01:39pm PT
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Werner, we having a bad day or does Coiler just get under your skin?
This inquiring mind inquires.
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 29, 2005 - 01:43pm PT
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Never a bad day just some facts.
This is the same kind of trash talk that got Bachar. He pushed the wrong guy to far one day and whamo. It was a mighty blow!
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Blowboarder
Boulder climber
Sandpoint, Idaho
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Jan 29, 2005 - 01:49pm PT
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Good point.
Ethical/style discussions always seem to become heated, probably because we all like to believe we're doing it the RIGHT way. I don't aid climb much (french free like a little bastard when I have too) so my opinion on this subject is pretty much worthless but my stance on ethics/styles in climbing pretty much mirrors my stance on life.
Do whatever makes you happy as long as it doesn't negatively affect others.
So, taking that into context, your comment about just not clipping the bolt while aiding A4 if you want it to be A4 is right on the money, IMO.
Others will feel different, the beauty of the human condition.
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 29, 2005 - 02:02pm PT
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Blowboarder
Coiler is free to have his opinions and his trash talk….behind all his talk there’s also his actions. There’s a lot more to him than meets the eye. His intentions on a whole mean well. His persona and style will some day rub someone who doesn’t know him a very wrong way if not already.
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spectreman
climber
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Jan 29, 2005 - 03:01pm PT
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Wow, I'm sure glad the great climbing guru "Lambone" is here to tell us all how things should be done.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Jan 29, 2005 - 03:14pm PT
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"Wow, I'm sure glad the great climbing guru "Lambone" is here to tell us all how things should be done.'
opinions are like as#@&%es, everybody has got them...now you have seen mine.
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Blowboarder
Boulder climber
Sandpoint, Idaho
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Jan 29, 2005 - 03:22pm PT
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I vote for removing all the fixed hardware in the Valley, lining up all the climbers in El Cap meadow (similar to the great Oklahoma land grab), someone shoots off a pistol, and off we go:
FARFOAA's for everyone, he/she who get's their first sets the tone for that chunk of rock.
Who's with me?
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spectreman
climber
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Jan 29, 2005 - 06:57pm PT
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I think opinions are one thing and personal attacks are another.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Jan 29, 2005 - 07:04pm PT
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yeah well maybe so, but anyone who drills new bolts on an established route and doesn't expect to get flamed by others is a darn fool.
WDD is one of the next routes on my tick list. If the bolts on the aid section of that route are still there they will be removed by me just like a chicken bolt should be. The bolts which do not affect the original route will be left alone.
peace
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 29, 2005 - 07:29pm PT
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Well then, I think we should all row a boat across the river from now on….no, no maybe fu-cking start swimming, ha ha ha. The original first crossing was done this way. Those bridges have really altered the route and experience, there're chickensh-t! I think I’ll blow up the first bridge that you’ll have to cross to get to Yosemite. Oh yes and I forgot I have to blow up all the frigging roads too. Everybody walk now. Walking or riding the horse is the right way. Yes Yes this the chosen path. We start tomorrow.
I called up big BURT he said it’s a done deal.
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StyMingersfink
climber
the 51st state.... denial
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Jan 29, 2005 - 07:30pm PT
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werner said:
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Did Ray Jardine ask the community if it’s ok to do what he did? Harding? Or the multitude of other individuals. There’s no written law saying you have to ask for anything. Where do you guys get it in your heads that there is?
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Precisely! and what lambone had to say just now is exactly what I was going to offer. Perhaps a crescent wrench will be standard on my lead rack from here on out. Any bolt I feel is worthless shall now hang sans hanger, BEFORE i pass by.
Quit sprayin, start un-boltin.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Jan 29, 2005 - 07:42pm PT
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Werner,
Chicken bolts are bullshit on any route, for whatever the reason. I may be the most vocal in this thread expessing my feelings on them, but I know I don't stand alone in this camp.
Just like the eternal struggle between good and evil, left wingers and right wingers, the Jedi and the Dark side, there will always be those who place chicken bolts and those who chop them. Hopefully less and less climbers will sucumb to the dark side in the future.
If you want to talk about removing the comforts of civilization from Yosemite, I will be the first to sign up on that campaign. It would make the climbing more challanging, but just imagine how much more rewarding. And no lines...
StyMingersfink,
removing the hanger is not the soloution. it's what fills the offending hole that matters.
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 29, 2005 - 07:58pm PT
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Yes Lambone .... I know….
There’s a lot of people who feel that way , then there’s a lot of people who feel the other way. The correct answer is what’s important. It’s there, but hasn’t been given yet on this thread. Who will give it?
Will they say it can’t be done?
Will the wheels keep spinning around and round?
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