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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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WTF is an "onsight with falls"?
(i am with aldood's comments just above)
..cause maybe i am selling myself short here!
doods, i have onsighted "with falls" ALL SORTS OF SH#T!
in fact, maybe the "with falls" bit ought to just be understood?
(just to mke the description more simple and straigtforward, you understand...)
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KP Ariza
climber
SCC
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Aldude, just got back from pouring drinks, and had to post up. I have to ask the same question you just asked. I've always thought of on sight as climbing a route first try, no falls, no beta, visual (seeing someone climb the route) or verbal. Flash on the other hand, being done first try, no falls with some form of beta visual or verbal.
I want to chime in for Todd Worsfold, it ain't trad but it is rad. BYR, in the mid 80's on sight, every pitch on lead, w/out falls and w/out even knowing what the f*#k the route was. He said he thought it "looked like a cool line". Only when he got up there did he realize the seriousness of the thing. But he did not bail and has since done it again, including the first pitch a third time.
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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BYR ?
(little help ova here?)
bacher yerian?
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Geno
Trad climber
Reston, VA
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Onsight flashed a number of routes in Alabama and Tennesee in the mid-80s. These were the best:
Only on Earth 5.11d Tennesee Wall
Steepoplis, 512a Tennesee wall
In 1986 we visited Bobby D in Colorado and he belayed me when I onsight flashed Wendego 5.12a/b. I can't imagine Bobby just stayed silent but I don't remember getting any beta :)
I Red pointed Chasin the Train (9) in the Frankenjura after one fall in 1987. Not a trad climb or a Flash but an effort I am proud of given that it was a new standard established a couple years before in Germany by Bacher. The Germans were still describing how you did it John.
In 1989 I on sight flashed To Have or Have Not, 5.12A R in the Gunks. My wife Laura belayed me. Crux was reasonably protected with an extended nut, but the run out above scared me badly. Stannard was way out there doing that in RDs in 1971. I am sure he also didn't fall.
I stopped climbing 1990-1999 because of injuries and work. But it's great to be climbing again. Nice also to recollect the past on ST.
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the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
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tales of power is hand size dependent...
crimson cringe is the pump fest and helps to have small hands. i missed the fish crack on site by 1 or 2 moves and i thought it was solid 5.12... but... that was in '85 when we did not have the mini cam gadgets of today...
gold finger is one of more memoriable ones to this day for trad..
I have onsighted a sh#t ton of .13a and .13b sport- BUT that does not count- even monkeys onsight .13b!
but for me it's never about the #, its about the line, the partner and the effort that the send represents!
ks
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Tomcat
Trad climber
Chatham N.H.
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Ha Ringtail,it's Deadbaby for me too.My one visit to the valley.Bolted but not sport,that's how I recall it...lol.
Onsighted Vultures at Sundown,10d.My first time there.All downhill from there.Did have to climb up and down to get the gear in though.Last time took five tries.20 years between 'em.
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MisterE
Social climber
My Inner Nut
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1995: Crack of Doom, City of Rocks. Was a long-time dream of mine to onsight that climb. I did it the .11c way too, pure crack, not using the holds that make it .11b.
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rick d
Social climber
tucson, az
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grossman, where the hell are you?
How hard is "Lucky" in Sedona?
lets up this game, what is the hardest deathcrux onsight. Not R/X on easier ground with a well protected crux but true your gonna ESAD if you blow it.
Moffit did Master's Edge I thought. Fancy belaying keep the leaders off the deck.
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Double D
climber
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I remember way BITD when Tobin Sorensen, after being in the mountains (Pattagonia?) came to the Valley and led Tales of Power, then Seperate Reality, back-to-back and off the sofa.
Although I didn't see him do it and can't attest to the stlye in which he did it, that was quite a feat back then.
Not bad for just getting your head back into the game, huh?
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Jeremy Handren
climber
NV
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Masters Edge... this route just had its first onsight at the end of last year (James McHaffie). This route is really a testament to just how hard it is to climb trad routes of this sort of difficulty (12d) ground up, considering that upper 13 onsights are now fairly common on sport routes.
This route is the most obvious line on one of the most popular crags in Britain and climbers have been throwing themselves at it ( Its considered relatively safe) ever since Fawcett did the FA in 1983.
The style of the climbing makes a big difference as well. I'm sure loads of hard cracks have been onsighted thanks to the more predictable protection and moves.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Shoot ...hardest onsight (pure) trad lead?
Boatloads of on sight no falls leads of 11/11+ in the Valley, Meadows, Taquitz/Suicide, CA Needles, Josh, Vedawoo, Eldo, (... often wearing a cowboy hat), yata, yata, yata.
Hmmm..."hardest" roped lead though, was on the Rotwand in Eldo: Yes Fragile, 5.9.
Just under vert, key holds were loose, pro was behind those holds, and the dance had to be very carefully unlocked if I wanted to stay this side of the "other side". Very rewarding.
(Hardest "unroped" lead: onsight solo of the 3 pitch, sometimes loose, Roof Wall on Hot Spur in Eldo, 5.9)
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socalbolter
Sport climber
Silverado, CA
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Didn't Croft onsite that short, hard route in the Valley?
Can't remember the name right now, maybe Van Bellodrome (or something like that?). I seem to remember that it was bolted and he led it with gear. Maybe 13+ ?
It was a while ago...
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Geno...remember how you, me and Dale Goddard when to Shelf Rd for the first time...and then look what happened.
Also...you were climbing quite well on that trip. We also nabbed a hard FFA in Boulder Canyon and new routes at 11 Mile and GOG.
Good times for sure.
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dave goodwin
climber
carson city, nv
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apparently most people have the same idea of a true "on-sight" ascent meaning no information, no beta, not seeing anyone else do it, etc. What about knowing the rating? lots of climbs these days it is hard not knowing the grade due to history, popularity, or scanning through a guide book. Just curious
take care
Dave
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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There can be no doubt about that influence, Dave.
In the 70s and 80s, if it was under 5.12 and you knew the rating, the imperative was to do it on site no falls, or at the least three strikes and you're out...
And knowing the rating was often the key to unlocking one's sense of the outcome. Eventually that leads to a departure from reliance upon grade, to a head space where purely looking at a piece of rock confers a sense of certainty.
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dave goodwin
climber
carson city, nv
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thanks Tarbuster.
I have often wondered about this aspect of a true on-sight. I have used the knowledge of agrade to help me send a route. Example would be if you know the grade and the moves you are making or trying to make feel harder then what the known grade is I will try not to force the move but try and find a hidden hold or possibly try a different variation hence saving the on-sight.
thanks
dave
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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No doubt Dave,
If you knew the rating, you would find a way to make the moves fit into that mental slipstream.
An under-appreciated positive aspect of sandbagging the leader was this:
The mentor would hand you a slim rack of nuts at the belay and arm your mind with a diminished rating and your asss would follow that narrative upward with results to match the story...a piece of cake!
Cheers & happy floating,
Roy
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Well, and to take Dave's idea a step farther ... what if you don't know whether it goes at all, whether there's pro above or no pro and loose holds, because you're way off the ground and no one's ever seen this section of rock? There's a real onsight experience.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Quite right Mr Chiloe,
Back up 4 or so posts to where I ruminated thus:
"Eventually that leads to a departure from reliance upon grade, to a head space where purely looking at a piece of rock confers a sense of certainty."
But this is all elementary craft...
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Geno
Trad climber
Reston, VA
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Bobby,
Yeah it was great being with you and your family on that trip back in 1986. Laura kept making me scrub out your bath tub so we would seem like good guests as we free loaded for 2 weeks with you guys. You had the cleanest bath tub in Colo Springs!
But seriously, besides being a gracious host you gave me a fabulous tour of 8MC, Shelf, Eldo, BC and all. Bobby, you really motivated me to climb and I knew by god you had the rope if I fell. For me, the belayer was a big part of being able to launch out without concern and climb at my limit. When you and I climbed at the Gunks this past Fall that same sense of total trust was there, Buddy. Remember you telling me to put in more gear as I struggled up Roseland? Always the Big Brother taking care of his Bro. Thanks man.
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