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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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LEB wrote: As it turns out, he would not have stood a chance anyway but still it was a supremely stupid thing to say.
The pot calling the kettle black...funny.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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John Kerry served his country voluntarily, honourably and bravely. He was recognized by his superiors at the time for his service, and probably could have avoided serving at all. Like Bill, and George, and most current U.S. senators and representatives avoided serving. He earned the right to be critical of the Vietnam War and the U.S. government of the time.
He was viciously defamed by the so-called "Swift Boat Veterans", whose reticence about their finances is damning. The only mistake Kerry made was not responding with overwhelming force. The SBVT lied - there's no two ways about it. Their behaviour should have been condemned by all right-thinking people, as it had no factual basis whatsoever. And it should have been denounced and disowned by the Republican machine, whose failure to do so is also damning.
But then, the Republican machine also destroyed the re-election campaign of Max Cleland, a Democrat senator. He lost three limbs while serving in Vietnam. The Republican "Saxby Chambliss" (is that a real name? Certainly not a name for a red-blooded American.) ran ads with innuendo suggesting a link between Cleland and Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden.
If that's how the Republicans really treat veterans and heroes, I'd rather be a draft dodger. LEB isn't the only one they managed to fool, though she has no excuse for not knowing better.
The reality is that the current Republicans are chickenshit chickenhawks, who aren't fit to wipe John Kerry's ass. John McCain, as a veteran and PoW, would at least be an improvement in that area. I doubt he'd tolerate any of this type of demagogy.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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"Karl,can you explain why you think this would work so well after looking at Social Security?"
Social Security is a fantastic program and one of the most popular in history. If we had no social security, what would the folks do who weren't capable of saving a huge nestegg and not having Enron lose it.
Social Security has exactly One big problem and one small one.
Big Problem, government has been stealing from the fund because they are too pussy to collect taxes for their expenses (Military and domestic) Still, it's still paying out and a slight increase would save it. QUIT "borrowing" from the social security fund and it will increase and increase with interest.
Second problem, demographics. Since we robbed the fund, the current folks are paying for the old folks instead of their future selves. Because of the baby boom, there's going to be a squeeze. Same with health care.
When you borrow against the future, you're going to pay sooner or later. That time is coming closer now with Social Security than with the rest of the national debt.
We don't learn squat. We repeat every mistake that's lucrative and easy to make
Peace
Karl
Lois was happy to believe the swift-boaters about Kerry. Google "McCain" and "Prostitutes" and see if you're so ready to believe what folks say with political ambitions. (rumors spread by Karl Rove btw)
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Tomcat
Trad climber
Chatham N.H.
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Have to agree Karl,it is a fantastic program,and is working.I think we need to raise the SS tax rate.And stop taking money from it.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Anders wrote: The reality is that the current Republicans are chickenshit chickenhawks, who aren't fit to wipe John Kerry's ass. John McCain, as a veteran and PoW, would at least be an improvement in that area. I doubt he'd tolerate any of this type of demagogy.
That's what was so hard for me digest and made me realize just how inept some Americans are ...John Kerry went to war, dodge bullets, saved lives and serve his country and they made him out to be the bad guy.
Just amazing!
Karl...like I said before in this thread SS is a trust and a very successful program. Bush and CO have no problems (they also have no legal right) stealing from the fund and basically jeopardizing the welfare of all Americans.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Social Security is a fantastic program
Bullshit!
If I had every dime I've put into Social Security in a very conservative investment fund. I would have retired at 50 with over a million in the banks and be out climbing now instead of working.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Lois, you're the one who brought up John Kerry's record, not me.
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John Moosie
climber
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"I do believe he revealed his true feelings which ARE very anti-military. "
You bought the lies Lois.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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LEB,
The point is it is a tax masquarading as a retirement plan.
If it were concieved by a private citizen they would go to jail for opperating a pyramid swindle.
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John Moosie
climber
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Lois, Kerry's anger is against the establishment for wasting the lives of troops, he is not angry with the troops. Try to differentiate. He is proud of his service and appreciates those who serve.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Lois, what I posted was negative and I'm sorry, I didn't however post profanities (but I thought em'!"
Let's start another thread about Kerry et al rather than Hose this thread with a big tangent.
Those who wish to ditch social security (start another thread for that too) should propose what to do about all the low wage earners who will not think they can save or might blow what they save for retirement. Let 'em die in the streets? A great source of crime is desperation. Pushing folks to save a minimum of safe money for the future through social security prevents a lot of hell that might cost even more. A system that favors the rich getting richer has to keep the poor from rising up to work so best to let em have their drop in the bucket. Just quit stealing from it!
peace
karl
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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Mtnmun - I feel for you. This is what Ive been talking about. The insurance industry is a huge money maker. Think about it, millions of healthy humans paying into a system that they never use. And if they do use it, the run the risk of being booted for costing the company too much. You've been paying this much every year and have talked to a doctor how many times?
It's a huge scam.
I hate it. The corporation I work for, in an effort to give me the freedom of choice is cutting health insurance all together. But they will be giving us the money that would have gone toward insurance.
This means that I now have the opportunity to get the really expensive individual insurance, or I can shop around to find the cheapest insurance plan for my needs, but that might never come into play.
I feel like our loving, caring, patriotic society has some clean up to do. Get rid of the corporations that do this as a normal practice. And because people from our society are running corporations, we need to get rid of the greed.
Capitalism helped for a while, but it's gone to far.
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John Moosie
climber
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He threw the medals in protest of the war as a symbol of his disgust with the establishment for promoting the war and lying about the war. Lots of Vets were doing that at the time. Please try to remember the times. It was ugly. Do you Remember Kent state?
Why are you crying?
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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LEB wrote: John,
It is hard to type through tears BUT then why did he throw his medals away - excuse me - someone else's medals. He actually kept his own. Give me a break. Anyway, I am crying now so I need some time to compose myself.
Are they tears of joy???
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Sounds like there are a few with poor reading comprehension.
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John Moosie
climber
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I'm sorry about your father Lois, my father is big on saving for retirement also.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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TGT wrote: Sounds like there are a few with poor reading comprehension.
No...some of just know when we are getting trolled.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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LEB wrote: bob,
Well I certainly hope you are not referring to me because if you think I (or anyone, for that matter) would "troll" via referencing their deceased father, then you are one sick f*#k.
Seems you grief left quite quickly.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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First of all, capitalism isn't somehow inherently good. It can be more efficient for certain things, but it can be bad for others. I'm not sure that I want the lowest bidder to provide my fire protection (or my military for that matter). The slave trade was a capitalist system, but I think most people would agree that it was an awful thing.
As for health care, our capitalist system for that has resulted in a system that causes us to pay more for worse care than any other first world country. Yes we have some really good drugs, really high tech machines, and some great specialists, but the basic care system is broken.
I work for the largest, most profitable health insurer in the country. Our CEO not long ago got axed for making hundreds of millions off back-dated stock options. Kind of hard to swallow when some kids aren't getting basic preventative care. The company regularly waits until the last second (and maybe sometimes past that) to pay claims. They do this so they can make money on the float (interest). Waiting 30 days to pay a $100 dollar claim doesn't sound like much, but if you multiply that by 10s of millions, that adds up to a lot of interest. So the next time those of you who have insurance have to call to see why a claim hasn't been paid, that's one of the reasons.
Check out what the members of Congress get as a health insurance policy. It's a pretty good deal. Why can't they insist on that for their constituents.
Single-payer systems in Canada and elsewhere aren't perfect, but they are a fair way better for a lot of people than what we've got now.
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John Moosie
climber
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"Check out what the members of Congress get as a health insurance policy. It's a pretty good deal. Why can't they insist on that for their constituents."
Yep...
Thank you for speaking up.
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