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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jan 12, 2008 - 05:45am PT
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hey there peter... say, just saw your post about your friend from the 70's, as you say... (hope his liver holds out, you mentioned, about him--this for many folks our age is a very real danger, no matter how healthy one look)...
soooooo, bill, whereever you are, take good care...
and let the drinking, be spare...
as--you climbing folks, are marevlous history...
stick around for the long haul, so folk's eyes won't grow misty...
share your knowledge and fun...
say, the day is new--its even now, begun...
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Jan 13, 2008 - 01:41pm PT
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Ahhh yes, the fond memories of Billy Boy, "our hero," "our little buddy," "the finest climber and most giving man in the Valley," "the glue that keeps it all together--past, present, and future." Yes, indeed, a true sacred cow, a true Yosemite idol. Prepare the pyre for one who would dare to slay the sacred cow.
Yessss, Billy! Certainly the most "giving man" in Yosemite, especially when squatted at the base of a route he could not climb but could nevertheless chop in the night.
Indeed our hero! There is nothing funnier than a drunken sot puking his guts out. Again and again...
and again...
and again and again.... Funnieeee!
And I just ROFL at the thought of our hero "screaming in terror" (as related to me by his partner) on the first pitch of WoS, utterly unable to make any headway at all, but when finally back on the ground still vowing to climb Horse Chute to rap the route and chop it.
Yes, our hero is certainly a courageous and "manly man" sort of chap as he "glues" the past courage and honor of Robbins together with the modern "courage" of choppers/sh|tters in the night! Yes, indeed, Billy Boy is a true Yosemite hero, defender of all that's pure! I wonder if Billy Boy told Don Lauria all about his WoS failure and prior "purification." Surely he did, one Yosemite "hero" sharing with another, you know.
Yes, our Billy Boy has hung with the who's who of Yosemite climbing, and clearly it has made him a better man: "An intelligent, funny guy" to be sure. Intelligent to be able to discern the "truth," and just rib-cracking funny as he does what has to be done about it.
Our hero, a true role model for young climbers everywhere! Our hero, with his priorities straight (even if most of the time he can't tell up from down).
Seriously, get some help, Bill. Find somebody that can help you come to grips with what you are and what you have become. Be honest with yourself and with others and learn to stand upright with the dignity of an honest gentleman. This is my hope for you.
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Jan 13, 2008 - 02:06pm PT
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Bill does like his liquids ( The liver is evil and must be punished), and maybe he has chopped a few bolts, or pooped where he shouldn't have, but he's just another human like the rest of us. He has his faults;....and wears them on his shirt sleeve too;....but he's pretty much a good guy in many ways;......I lived under the same roof as Bill for years;......I honestly believe if WOS team knew him under different circumstances;....things would be quite different. He's a climber, and most climbers have their love of climbing as a genuine bond. When someone messes with you and your gear;...as a climber;...it's a hard pill to swallow;...I've had it done to me before (stolen gear, chopped routes, lawsuits, and threatened lawsuits.....)......yeah;...you get pissed off, you stew about it for years, then you get over it, over yourself, and you move on. I'm sure I've pissed off my share of people too;...and I hope they get over any wrongs or "wrongs" I have done to them. I'm sure Bill has done some dumb things in the past he wish he didn't.......which make him just like us all;.......human, and a climber......guilty as charged. I don't support some or all of his lame-o actions;....but support him as a friend and as a fellow climber;...his awesome side outweighs his faults, one hundred to one. He does have a cetain "style" that is somewhat unique in time and space......He also believe he is correct all the time (So does Chongo and Tucker....you should see them all in the same room together;.....three know-it-alls ready to solve any problem or tackle any issues...) I also know Mark and Richard from when I first started climbing, and I have always been impressed with their spirit of adventure, their motivation, thier talent, and their love of climbing. I believe we are all too much alike in more ways than we are different;....and the climbing community is a colorful one too;....wouldn't want it any other way, would we? Respectfully;........Todd Gordon
My bachlor party. Friends I can depend on. (Sad bunch, but alot of fun!)
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WandaFuca
Gym climber
San Fernando Lamas
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Jan 13, 2008 - 02:24pm PT
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Year: 2036
Thread title: Goodbye Bill Russell
Message by: Madbolter1
Ahhh yes, the fond memories of Billy Boy, "our hero," "our little buddy," "the finest climber and most giving man in the Valley," "the glue that kept it all together--past, present, and future."
You all mourn for Bill, but what about my ropes and my rivets? Who mourns for them?
___
Get over yourself. Life is too short to hold grudges.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Jan 13, 2008 - 05:53pm PT
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Yeah, WandaFuca, you're probably right. This thread is all about how great Billy Boy is, and surely everybody can't be wrong, especially here in this bastion of the climbing "community." I was just trying to provide a bit of balance, particularly since the thread's title includes the word "depreciation."
But I guess I should just view Billy's initial "contribution" to my climbing experience and his further 25 years of lies as the genuinely "colorful" and "human" elements that Billy Boy has brought into our "community." What would our climbing "community" BE without such "color?" I don't dare to think about it!
Funny, somehow I got this just totally wrong. Billy always seemed like a pitiful coward to me, but this thread has, like, totally set me straight.
It's ok now. I'm on board. I get it now. We the climbing "community" actually APPRECIATE and REVERE alcoholism, nighttime vandalism, decades of defamation and lies, cowardice, and other such "virtues." After all, if a guy hasn't vandalized and defamed YOU, then as long as he's FUNNY, he's more than just alright--he's a HERO!
I see the clear contrast now. I've made the mistake of taking SERIOUSLY the "principles" that have so blinded me to the truth: the climbing "community" can love ANY atrocities as long as the perpetrator doesn't take himself seriously. A drunken clown has unlimited license in the climbing "community," but the ONE thing the "community" won't tolerate is a victim calling it wrong.
Thanks for setting me straight, WandaFuca. I won't take ANYTHING I see on these threads seriously at this point. I'm SO over it!
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prunes
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 13, 2008 - 06:51pm PT
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Get over yourselfs and be lucky he did not crap on your heads
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deuce4
Big Wall climber
the Southwest
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Jan 13, 2008 - 07:00pm PT
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yes, get over yourself. This thread isn't about you. Go rekindle the WOS threads with some Supertopo pseudonyms if you want to rant some more.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Jan 13, 2008 - 07:20pm PT
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Actually, Prunes, just for the record, people inspired by Billy Boy (our hero) and his ilk DID crap on our heads. Literally. Repeatedly.
John, I guess I shouldn't be surprised to find that the barely subsurface venom is quick to make its appearance. So, let me get this straight. You are advocating that a thread NAMED "depreciation" of Billy Boy is off limits to people that actually have some "depreciating" things to say about him? TRUE things in fact (unlike the FALSE things our hero has spewed over the decades)? Like I said in my first posting here, the pyre is ready for the one going after our drunken, clownish, cowardly sacred cow hero. Is Billy Boy YOUR level of thinking, John? For shame!
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prunes
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 13, 2008 - 08:31pm PT
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I agree with Deuce. If you need more attention start your own thread. Sorry about the crap on your head. May I suggest wrapping a diaper around your helmut like a giant turban. It would keep the feces off yuor head. And if you are going to whine and cry like a spoiled little baby you should be wearing a diaper in the first place.
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WandaFuca
Gym climber
San Fernando Lamas
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Jan 13, 2008 - 08:42pm PT
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Madbolter1,
Maybe Wanda didn't make herself clear.
How long do you intend to hang on to your resentment and hate? Are you going to post your vitriol again years from now when Bill dies and someone starts a thread in memoriam?
Look to your self.
Wanda would define "perfect human" as someone who lived every moment of his of her life by the Golden Rule. So far Wanda has not found him or her; it is very disappointing . . .
. . . but as Wanda gets to know someone, she has found that a kind of informal or even subconscious balance sheet forces her to decide whether to become closer or move away from an aquaintance or friend. Do the positives of a person's peronality and behavior seem to outweigh the negatives--then make that person your friend--if not, then limit your association.
Why dwell on such negativity? Are you really warning us about someone who could be a danger to us--a pederast, wife-beater, murderer? Wanda doesn't think so. So what is your purpose? If after all these years it is only to vent your rage then Wanda thinks that is very sad, and, sorry to say, Wanda cannot be your friend.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Jan 13, 2008 - 09:08pm PT
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Um, the title of this thread does include the word "depreciation", does it knott?
Isn't everyone entitled to his own opinion, even if it is contrary to the majority? Didn't Ibsen have something to say about that?
Doesn't the legit sabbath start on Friday night and end just in time for Saturday night drinking?
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Jan 13, 2008 - 09:10pm PT
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Madbolter;.....go for it;...give them an earfull.....the way you guys were treated was WAY out of line;...AND....no one says there is a time limit on being pissed off about it;......you can "get over it" in YOUR time schedule.......not anyone elses schedule. Speak your mind, share your thoughts.....and when you are ready to be done with it....it's really nobody's business than your own.......Yeah;...it's probably not always a good policy to hold on to being pissed off for decades;....but I guess it must run it's course.......keep on keeping on......and give that rascal Bill some more grief;.......he dishes it out quite freely, and he's a big boy;...he can take it......( I heard once about a story with Bill, a door, and a potatoe gun.......wonder if that is true or just folk lore...an urban legend..)....Climbers are wacked anyways;.......I see it daily....... Again; respectfully Todd Gordon
Give em' Hell!
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jan 13, 2008 - 09:11pm PT
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Um. Whut-Evar.
I'm with Todd: Yeah ...Yah!
I'm mad as hell & juss can't take it any longer!
'Gots boilin' oil (plenty), torches and detox kits at the ready.
Let's sack that Swillin' Fokker!!!
Who's with me?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Jan 13, 2008 - 09:13pm PT
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Steve, mimisoft's databanks are still corrupted. Fix, please. The Sabbath is Saturday not Sunday ("Remember the seventh day..."), and I'm still waiting for any response to the questions on the "Peace and Love" thread.
Wanda, much too deep for me. I'm just a simple guy that thinks we should not hold as "heros" those that physically defecate on others and encourage people to do the same. It's a simple principle, maybe too simple. I'm a fairly simple-minded person, probably a result of all the feces, tin cans, trash, and rocks hitting it from above. Try to keep it simple for me.
The remaining psychobabble is off track as always. But, I guess those that idolize the likes of Billy Boy MUST live in the realm of conjecture and fantasy rather than fact. It has ever been this way.
[Edit] Crossed posts, Todd. You mistake my desire for accountability as continued anger. Actually, things have turned out just fine, and our anger is largely gone. Of course, even after more than two decades, the attempt to create a fantasyland and FORCE it to be true by mere weight of dogpile is attempted by a few. Happily the dogpile is populated by fewer these days. No anger here toward our hero... just wanting to see him own up and get well after lo these many years.
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Mimi
climber
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Jan 13, 2008 - 09:29pm PT
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Oh yeah, that Sabbath. Most Christian faiths observe Sabbath on Sunday. But then again, you ARE just a little different.
At issue is your glaring lack of humility and common sense, not mine.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Jan 13, 2008 - 09:30pm PT
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mimisoft, still waiting....
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Mimi
climber
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Jan 13, 2008 - 09:32pm PT
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Waiting for what, Bwana?
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Jan 14, 2008 - 09:20am PT
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I believe Richard is *still* waiting for Mimi to reply to his [url="http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=236000&msg=508571#msg508571"]More peace and love from Mimi[/url] thread.
In it, Richard has repeatedly asked specific questions to Mimi, but Mimi has steadfastly remained silent. This lack of response seems significant to me - why is it that Mimi attacks Mark and Richard at virtually every opportunity, but won't answer a few reasonable questions?
Obviously Mimi is afraid to answer, but why?
Cheers,
Pete
Subman, Big Wall Parvenu
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survival
Big Wall climber
arlington, va
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Jan 14, 2008 - 09:52am PT
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I think Bill knows exactly who he is, and he will come to grips with any personal demons/shadows if and when he CHOOSES to.
We all have demons and skeletons in the closet.
I cast out a couple of my own a few years back when I decided I was tired of getting my ass kicked by booze. The consequences outweighed the fun. There were those who worried about me and even spoke up. I resented and appreciated them at the same time. Nothing could be done until I hit my own wall. The idea that a drinking problem might be a secret to the person who has it is ridiculous.
The positive thoughts I have of Bill remain the same.
He was always good to me.
Saints and purists in climbing are few. Rebels and free thinkers are abundant. We like it that way. Robbins was a chopper, Harding was a hard drinker, we all fit in there somewhere. We are all part of the story, there's room for all.
"Too many mountains, not enough years." Herman Buhl
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Jan 14, 2008 - 10:43am PT
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Survival, what's ridiculous is comparing Billy Boy's cowardice with Robbin's honor. Robbins CLIMBED the route he PARTIALLY chopped, then stopped because, as he PUBLICLY admitted, he was WRONG. Hmmm... let's see. Robbins climbed the route. Check. Billy Boy. Uhhh, no check. Robbins quickly stopped chopping because he SAW the route he was chopping. Check. Billy Boy (drunken night-time chopping). Uhhhh, no check. Robbins publicly admitted he was wrong, demonstrating honestly and honor. Check. Billy Boy (run and hide after his failure on the route). Uhhh, no check. Hmmm... you know, to think about it, there is NO correlation between the MAN Robbins and the dishonorable coward Billy Boy.
The fact that "he's always been good to you" is a matter of luck on your part not principle on Billy Boy's part. You've just never done anything to get Billy Boy thinking that he needed to heap abuse on you, because Billy Boy has already demonstrated that he will violate the most basic principles of human dignity and rights if he gets a wild hair to do so. If this is "free thinking," it's quite a break with the long, honorable tradition of thought that goes by that same name!
Oh, and BTW, MOST alcoholics are in denial. This is a known fact among counselors that work with them. So what is "ridiculous" is that you think, yet again contrary to the facts, that Billy Boy certainly knows what he is. The FACTS say that he probably does not. If Billy Boy is really your friend, then instead of propping him up and failing to hold him accountable for his actions, particularly when drunk, you will hold him accountable.
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