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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Well done again, Nate.
Now,....if they'd only pay attention.
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Doug Hemken
climber
Madison, WI
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Why would the Park go to all that effort and expense, when this is not a pressing issue for them. If the damage reached the level of the erosion at the Practice Cliffs, or you had loud user conflict, then they would be ready to put in the effort.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Its an opportunity for a user group to show that a responsible plan can be effected and paid for without asking the general public for a handout.
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John Mac
Trad climber
Littleton, CO
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Interesting discussion...
My last trip to Zion was October this year, I climbed hammerless and did a trade route. IMHO my impact to the environment was far less than the people who were swinging hammers on the streaked wall.
However, the thing that disturbed me was the amount of human waste I found at the base of the route and at the top. Until parties stop shitting on the ground or under a rock, I don't have a lot of hope.
My first climbing trip to Zion was in the 83 and yes, you can see the impact of climbers from the valley floor. Hauling trails didn't exist back then. Although I agree with a lot of points that have been raised in this discussion, Zion shouldn't be a place for only the elite out there, people can can whip up walls in a few hours. We all have to start somewhere.
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slobmonster
Trad climber
berkeley, ca
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As with most public land management issues, this one revolves around poop.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Not really Slob.
Poop goes away. Scars of the rock do not.
JM,
I don't think it is elitist to expect that people be able AT LEAST to do the short grade V trades by fixing and firing.
There are plenty of places INCLUDING ELSEWHERE IN ZION where people can up their skills BEFORE they utilize the cream of the collection. Preferably they could acquire said skills on a more resiliant medium.
We're not talking about high number ability as much as competence. It amazes me how many try Touchstone or Prodigal or Space Shot as their very first brush with aid!
Rudeness and/or lunacy!
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John Mac
Trad climber
Littleton, CO
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Yes, poop does go away, but it takes a long time when it is wrapped in a plastic bag and stuffed under a rock!
Wag bags are not that expensive!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Just got an email from Supt. Whitworth.
He's reading this and passing it on to the Chief and district rangers.
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