Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
|
Oct 22, 2007 - 03:11pm PT
|
I recall top roping the route wayyyy back and shamelessly laybacking for all that I was worth, which was not much, technique wise that long ago. I have some pics buried in the box somewhere. Thanks for posting those photos. Flashback city!
|
|
Ura
Big Wall climber
Okinawa
|
|
|
Oct 22, 2007 - 04:32pm PT
|
That climb was done by Pat Ament in fall 1967. That would have been one of the first 5.11 routes.
|
|
Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
|
|
|
Oct 22, 2007 - 05:01pm PT
|
Thanks John for your spirit and generosity, the latter being one of the marks of the truly great climber.
Yes I did Left Side of Remnant in '67, probably right after the Center Slack. I remember being solid on it, feeling good that day, not even thinking about the first part. I took a few glances at the undercling before trying it, and that seemed to be the crux (as I remember it). Dalke had little experience in chimneys or offwidths (very good at face climbing and other kinds of climbing, though), and also he was being jilted by some thin blonde who was eyeing me, his best friend, instead, so he was a psychological wreck (even though I ignored her), and he had trouble following that first chimney-crack, scraping his knees. I felt for him, but then he'd come back and do some really hard thing in Eldorado or somewhere.
Largo, tell me about that Big Daddy climb at Tahquitz. I'm not sure I'm aware of that one.
|
|
Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
|
Oct 22, 2007 - 09:18pm PT
|
My recollection is that the rating is 5.10b not 5.11 and that the problem is mostly seriousness due to the difficulty in arranging adequate protection. But then I have not tussled with that one on the sharp end either. Everything flares down or out as I recall.
|
|
Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2007 - 02:40am PT
|
Steve, Left Side of Remnant is definitely harder than 5.10b. You're right about leading being more difficult than top-roping. I think John (Largo) is pretty accurate about the possibility of a 5.11a grading, maybe easy 5.11 or possibly 5.10d, but stiff enough for thems days.
|
|
Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2007 - 12:21pm PT
|
No real argument here. Any top rope rating is pretty irrelevant anyhow. I simply recall doing the route that way long before 5.11 was within my scope but I just checked the Mountain 31/ Ascent comparative category ratings and no Remnant appears. 5.10b could be just another figment of my imagination. Hats off for a stout lead regardless!
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2007 - 12:38pm PT
|
Hah, maybe it was "just" a really, really burly 10B;
Alas, we all know how ratings can go, grain of salt and such!
Use 'em as a guideline and hang on to your hat...
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2007 - 12:53pm PT
|
Whatever the rating, so much of that Valley wide stuff is just plain “physical” to quote Don Reid.
Jaybro up thread mentioned Gollum left, on El Capitan: I also led that one in regular off width style, with Billy Russell seconding (we had a tape deck at the base playing Frank Zappa). On yet another day, Billy lead Twilight Zone (pushing a cam). It's all pretty stiff athletics, anyway you slice it.
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
The West
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2007 - 01:05pm PT
|
I lead it onsight and the 10b rating seemed pretty accurate, it always looked like it was about to get harder, though.
|
|
Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2007 - 01:08pm PT
|
5.9 + with cams..... 10.b on tubes / hexes
fighting grade inflation since 1978
|
|
mastadon
Trad climber
Tahoe
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2007 - 01:16pm PT
|
Ahab used to be rated 5.10a.
I used to take all my proteges up it, once they started to get overconfident, to see if I could get them to puke. Used to move to the far side of the alcove so I wouldn't get splattered.
Never underestimate Valley 5.10a (old school).
---
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2007 - 01:26pm PT
|
The key with Ahab is to stay focused on those (wide) handjams where it finally necks down and just don't fall out before you get them!
-fighting ground fall since 1974.
|
|
mastadon
Trad climber
Tahoe
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2007 - 01:33pm PT
|
Mr Tarbaby Sir,
I always found that the key to Ahab was the size of your feet.
The ability to heel-toe was crucial.....
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2007 - 01:40pm PT
|
Here is one of Billy Russell's six-inch tube chocks:
But it's mine now: mine, mine, mine.
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2007 - 01:42pm PT
|
Yes Masta,
To mightily ascend Ahab, I applied the heel-toe against opposite foot's in-step: the double foot stacking widget...
|
|
Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2007 - 04:26pm PT
|
Call me Ishmael.....or Twinky but RR used to freesolo Ahab in his street shoes or so the legend goes using his famous arm lock (known these days as an armbar) and the White Wail was never heard. But what remains of the Remnant.....?
|
|
mastadon
Trad climber
Tahoe
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2007 - 04:46pm PT
|
Mr Twinkie Sir,
Go ahead and give 'er a try in street shoes. Let us know how it turns out.
Don't worry, the Remnant remains.
--
|
|
scuffy b
climber
The deck above the 5
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2007 - 04:48pm PT
|
This is the first I've ever heard of that famous armlock (which
Robbins attributed to Bridwell) being equated to an armbar.
That armlock is what every chicken-wing wishes it could
be.
In Rockcraft there's a Sheridan illustration of Bridwell hanging
on an armlock.
|
|
scuffy b
climber
The deck above the 5
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2007 - 04:50pm PT
|
The guidebook calls the Remnant 5.10b.
Not to imply that I believe it for a minute.
|
|
Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2007 - 05:19pm PT
|
Wow. I just made a big post and did something, and lost everything.
Remnant. I can't say I really should trust my memory at this point, in terms of the grade, but it seems a few people thought it was 5.11a. And now Largo suggesting the same, but I'm fine with a lesser grade if that's what it is actually. I only remember I had my manky Spiders which were good for heel-toe but not much for smearing, in an undercling. I had no Friends or big cams or tube chocks of any kind. I don't recall what I used to protect the undercling, but it was the first gear I got, and right below the undercling somewhere.
Ahab. I found it easy when I did it, because I could get an armlock, as we called it then, with elbow pointed up and palm against the wall with fingers pointing down. There might have been a moment right at the transition between off-width and handjams, but I found a bomber piton placement right there (a baby angle in a side wall crack). Pratt told me he found Ahab to be quite hard for him, because he has small feet and couldn't get good heel-toe action.
Royal's tennis shoes. Those were Tretorn tennis shoes, and they had amazing friction. He started wearing them because his big bunyons hurt too much in regular climbing shoes. Breashears once brought me a pair as a present, and I could climb anything in them I could with regular climbing shoes. In fact, David and I did a bunch of climbs in Eldorado with Tretorns. They weren't like normal "tennis shoes." They were kind of the next step toward Fire and sticky rubber.
I found the old shot of me you asked for, Roy, on Do Not Touch. I've tried to post it, but I can't keep Supertopo open and PhotoBucket at the same time. I am mildly retarded computerwise, I guess. I also found an old lousy shot of the first ascent of Ament's Arete in Camp 4, with Dick Dorworth spotting. He had just set the world's record for speed skiing. I had just eaten a huge spaghetti dinner. I was wearing the colorful psychedelic shirt Bridwell's girl friend Lois made for me.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!