(OT) Warning...Political Thread: Hitler/Bush Parallels

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John Moosie

climber

Jul 26, 2007 - 06:44pm PT

Chaz,

If you are not afraid of any of those things, then why do we need the Patriot Act, why do we need gitmo, why do we need to torture anyone, why can't we give fair trials to everyone ?

John Moosie

climber

Jul 26, 2007 - 07:10pm PT

Thats not the point AC. The point is to hear their point of view. Its the only way to understand, even if I don't agree with it. The conquering of ignorance doesn't happen without dialogue. Name calling just shuts down dialogue.

John Moosie

climber

Jul 26, 2007 - 07:23pm PT

If it helps me understand why they believe what they believe, then its worthwhile.

And yes, there is a point where it becomes futile. I think the chance of Fatty understanding the delusion of his position is virtually nil, so I don't talk to him much anymore. I do present the opposite view to what he believes because I think it is important to answer delusion in such a public place, but I don't believe it will get through to him. In private, I wouldn't bother but once, then we would have to change topics.

John Moosie

climber

Jul 26, 2007 - 07:35pm PT

LOL, you just figuring that out.

We aren't that different though. You still want whats best for this country and so do I. We just disagree on how to get there. This applies to most folks on this forum. I don't think there is really anyone here who is purposely evil. Deluded.. yes, evil.. no.

John Moosie

climber

Jul 26, 2007 - 07:54pm PT

AC, I have gotten answers from most of the folks on this forum. Sometimes it takes awhile, but I don't worry about that. Forums are a slow form of communication versus face to face. It is your "in your face " type communication that shuts down dialog.

Just so you understand, Answers don't mean changed minds.

My Name Is Drew

Big Wall climber

Dogtown, LosAngeles, CA.

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2007 - 08:11pm PT

Fatty has seen fit to claim "our current enemy can be linked directly to Hitler".
Guess what? The Bush family has long had ties to the Nazi party; ties they've gone to great lengths to conceal.
Grandpa (great grandad?) Bush continued business affairs with the Nazis long after was it was made illegal by the US Govt when we entered WWII. This is documented.
Interesting, revealing, and more than a little alarming that he should choose to frame it that way, "our current enemy".
Fatty has spilled the beans: he's a victim of the militarization of American culture. "Current enemy"? Why, who's next on the list?

Fet you're spot on about "right wingers" spinning documentation, comments of others that they disagree with, even their own statements at whim to suit themselves. That they choose to do so when the consequences for the world are so tragic and possibly irreversable is truly baffling. Americans are "look out for number one" oriented and this comes as no surprise. There's plenty of good explanations for the occassional selfish, fearful behaviour humans are capable of but in America it's taken a singularly self destructive tack whether we're aware of it or not.
There's been some additions to the 9/11 thread I provided yesterday. Maybe a bit more insight into what goes on in the heads of people in denial in the UK, maybe not.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=253839

My Name Is Drew

Big Wall climber

Dogtown, LosAngeles, CA.

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2007 - 08:15pm PT

Last word about my adopting British slang and spellings:

If I spoke Latin, would you accuse me of trying to be Roman?

HELLO.

Jeremy Handren

climber

Jul 26, 2007 - 08:24pm PT

Fatrad said
"Ken Lay and Enron obviously had some severe ethical issues (never owned any shares), but I would want the counsel of CEO's that produce and generate a key component of the US economy. I'd also want to hear from university PHD's, think tanks and alternative power groups. From what I've heard from friends in DC, the input from all parties was gathered by the Bush admin".

Two points,
#1 Well, judging by what transpired, the people whose opinion mattered to the Administration, where also the people who were funneling a tremendous amount of money to the Republican party. Furthermore in this case, and from what I can tell, in many others, the role of "advisors" was far more than the mere expressing of opinions, but to actually help write policy. To me, its hard NOT to see a Quid Pro Quo in this.

#2 "Let's face it the media/Dems hate Bush and see evil plots behind everything."

And its really nothing to do with party affilliation, it about formulating policy that is in the best interests of the american people as a whole, if this isn't happening then there is a problem. Instead of name calling, maybe you should explain to me why this process of Pay to Play is a good thing for the American people.

Mighty Hiker

Social climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Jul 26, 2007 - 08:42pm PT

I try to avoid the political threads, not always successfully.

Attorney-General Gonzales may be on the verge of being charged with perjury before a Senate committee. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/26/washington/26cnd-gonzales.html?hp

A short quote "The dispute over the truthfulness of Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales reached a new intensity today as the F.B.I. Director, Robert S. Mueller 3rd, contradicted Mr. Gonzales’s sworn testimony before a Senate committee."

Senators on the Judiciary Committee are seeking appointment of a special counsel to investigate. The chair of that committee is issuing a subpoena to Karl Rove, to require that he appear and give evidence as to the firing in 2006 of nine federal prosecutors.

Sure do like the rule of law, even if it takes a while to work. The domino theory is ok, too.