Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2007 - 03:49pm PT
|
I did a route with a friend whereon the batteries died mid-third pitch (we were young and careless) and he was forced to finish the lead w/out any more bolts, despite the fact he wanted to place a bolt more than anything else on this planet and a fall would have been at least r rated. The route is otherwise reasonably protected w/ gear and a couple of bolts. Should this route be left as it is for the next 50 years? 100 years? 200 years?
|
|
pcousar
Sport climber
White Salmon, WA
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2007 - 03:58pm PT
|
hey healyje - wes is not here for sympathy for his cause, he's here b/c he likes being an a s s h o l e..
wes says... "because I love watching ya'll get your panties in a wad"
|
|
k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2007 - 04:29pm PT
|
Should this route be left as it is for the next 50 years?
No. You should go back and remove all the bolts so someone else can have a shot at it.
|
|
Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2007 - 04:47pm PT
|
ontheedge: You and your friend should simply go back and complete the third pitch, in a manner consistent with the rest of the climb. (Assuming, of course, that it was appropriate to the history and ethos of the area.)
|
|
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2007 - 05:01pm PT
|
The pitch is complete- just without the bolt that would have otherwise been there. No chance of going back, long way away, long time ago and I have mouths to feed. My question was more rhetorical I guess, should this random event forever define a climb as dangerous? Right now someone could just call and say, hey, can I add a bolt? I wouldn't care, but in a long time (I hope) that will be impossible and a larger population of climbers looking at the same amount of limited resources we have now is going to have to decide what to do with such routes. My guess is that bolts will be added. Sort of pointless speculation, but that's what interweb threads generally are.
|
|
TradIsGood
Happy and Healthy climber
the Gunks end of the country
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2007 - 06:04pm PT
|
What about gluing the fallen rocks back up?
Like the now 5-10 Dis-Mantle in the Gunks that used to be 5.8?
Is it ok to take up some Bondo and ground up stone and fill in all the pin scars to their pristine state?
JDF, where are you? How is your Royal Arches log replica coming?
|
|
nick d
Trad climber
nm
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2007 - 08:24pm PT
|
wes says "Unless you climb at a crag within walking distance of your house, you can take stuff your "environmentally oriented" rhetoric." Actually son, my choice is to live within walking distance of my job, and walk to and from work every day. The mountain range I climb in is approachable by roads from below, 20 miles of driving, or the top, 40 miles, it's farther to drive to the top so if practical I approach from the bottom and pay the penalty of walking farther. I try to only drive my car twice a week. I do these things because they are the contributions I can make to saving our environment. And yes, I said "our", that includes you. I realize that you are some 12 or 14 year old flamer and that you don't get it, but I hope that someday you will. The world is not ours to use up, but rather to steward it as best we can. Once again I used the inclusive "we". The world does not revolve around you and the sooner you come to that realization the better off you will be. Or not, the choice is yours.
Michael
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2007 - 08:53pm PT
|
Well, there you have it - over the top for the long slide down to idiocy - a comfortable repose no doubt. This is where some just have to be written off as terminally clueless - neither interested in, nor cabable of, learning. Yet again, I envy surfers in that they are lucky you can't bolt waves - even if they now have to contend with guys like Wes [sport] towing into six foot waves.
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2007 - 09:06pm PT
|
NAZIS
now we have completed our slide
|
|
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2007 - 09:21pm PT
|
Climbers have it a lot better than surfers. So many spots are so impacted that line up ettiquette is gone in some places. Some of that, however, is a result of old timers refusing to let newer and younger surfers into the rotation, as was traditionally the case before crowds increased so much. Resentment builds and at some point somebody says, fek it, I am just gonna drop in on that greedy old guy taking all the waves. That happens enough and the traditional unwritten rules are out the window. This doesn't happen at highly regulated A list spots, but it sure does at others. I think there is a lesson in that and that it's good to think about how to absorb more people w/out sacraficing all traditions.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2007 - 09:28pm PT
|
"Says someone from a generation that ate up way more than their share of natural resources, clear cut the forests, and dumped raw sewage into the oceans. I wouldn't be paying $3.70 per gal or $25 per sheet of plywood if it wasn't for your wasteful ways."
The rebel with the missing clue?
My dear friend weschrist, you yourself probably had a hand in that in your past life like many of us, otherwise you/we/us would knott be suffering the malady you described in your italic quote.
This material world is the prison house of the conditioned soul.
It's time to plan our escape ......
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2007 - 09:34pm PT
|
Short of towing in (sport surfing) - you still have to pony up the kahones to paddle out into big waves just like your grandmother did - there are no bolts...
|
|
atchafalaya
climber
California
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2007 - 09:41pm PT
|
you didnt have to bring my granny into it...
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
LA, Ca
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2007 - 11:07pm PT
|
Lot's of editing going on around here. I think I'll join the club...
Sorry Atcha - I didn't mean to be an ass... just can't help it sometimes. :-)
|
|
atchafalaya
climber
California
|
|
|
Jul 12, 2007 - 12:15am PT
|
Ksolem, nothing "standard setting". Been climbing about 20 years. New routes in AZ, Ut, and CA. Working on some new lines at Donner now.
Compared to the talent here, yea, Im a noob...
|
|
Jello
Social climber
No Ut
|
|
|
Jul 12, 2007 - 02:00am PT
|
weschrist's opinion is worthless, because it's a troll; ie. may or may not be what he really believes/thinks/feels. Ignore him until he's honest.
-JelloDemandsTruth
|
|
Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
|
|
|
Jul 12, 2007 - 03:20am PT
|
I have added bolts to some of MY very run out "creations" of the past;...and people get pissed off at me and tell me that I should leave things as is. It's a tough call, because ...if you don't know what went on during the first ascent and the "vision" of the F A party;....I think it's best to let the F A party decide.....sometimes you run out of time, energy, bolts, stances, ......broken drill bits, dropped gear, injuries, sickness, darkness;...whatever;....and you don't get to "finish" the route to your ( The F A partie's) satisfaction.......so ya go back and finish the route (meaning add a bolt or two like you wanted to originally.....)....then;....people get pissed, call you a pussy, chop your bolts, say your ruined the route, you are weak, etc...........I say.....go do your OWN routes, and then YOU can decide how the route will end up as. In the end;...it's just a silly game, it's just rock;...not The Olympics or God....people get funny about stuff like this;...ever notice?
|
|
426
Sport climber
Buzzard Point, TN
|
|
|
Jul 12, 2007 - 04:11pm PT
|
Todd, good on you...
I still have yet to hear of anybody doing Gerughty's "original" Dike Route...a classic "retrobolt", agree?...
|
|
Degaine
climber
|
|
|
Jul 13, 2007 - 05:07am PT
|
weschirst wrote: “If good rock is taken up with shitty routes, they WILL get retrobolted whether you like it or not... deal with it.”
I asked you this in another thread and never received a response, where are these square miles of fantastic rock covered in horrendously run out routes to which routes or areas are you referring?
Everyone might be getting their panties in a wad regarding your posts, but you make it sound as if all the rock out there is taken up by these horridly run out routes.
Seriously, there are maybe three or four routes (usually in California) cited in these discussions. HairRaiser Buttress, Bachar Yerian and on occasion South Crack. Two of those are in Tuolumne Meadows.
On that note, most people I climb with (and some are breaking into leading 5.8) go to Tuolumne specifically for run out slab climbing, in addition to the fact that most routes in Tuolumne with a 5.8 or less rating (including those with an R after them) are climbed more than very frequently.
I’ll admit that I’ve only climbed extensively in California, so you could be referring to other areas in the US.
|
|
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 13, 2007 - 11:40am PT
|
I can think of lots of routes, in several different states, which would get climbed all the time if they did not involve the very real risk of serious injury. They are seldom done b/c people don't want to break legs or worse. Run out slabs are no big deal once you get used to climbing slabs and are reasonably comfortable at the grade so I don't think south crack is a good example of everyone's willingness to climb r rated climbs.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!