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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Jun 27, 2007 - 01:41am PT
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You wine snobs crack me up.. but since you are here and I'm on the prison computer.... which box wine is better: Vella or Franzia??? I'm talking about something red... like Hearty Burgundy. Please advise.
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Wild Bill
climber
Ca
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Jun 27, 2007 - 01:43am PT
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Russ - take whatever the guards are willing to smuggle in for you.
Pruno is not bad, if allowed to ferment adequately. Watch out for pits and teeth though.
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Finn
Trad climber
Santa Rosa, CA
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Jun 27, 2007 - 01:55am PT
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Man, some really serious crying happening around here with all this talk of palate, blind tastings, distinguishing varietals, etc. I think we're slightly off kilter on this one.
With regards to pricing, I'm not gonna go look for it but there was the beginning of a very solid argument a number of posts back which started with the fact that a wine begins as little more than a grape. I would like to take that one step further and say that it's the vineyard. It's all the rage these days to be a winemaker and proclaim little influence on the grape and say that your wine is an expression of the vineyard. However, it’s no coincidence, the Europeans knew this long ago and it just took us a little longer to get there.
Not all but many of those that have the land and the vines value it that much more and are putting more time and energy into creating a product in a biodynamic and ecologically sound manner and truly returning to making wine for it's original purpose. But to do this in the proven wine regions of Cali it takes a ton of money.
When I talk about an organic vineyard or biodynamic vineyard this does not mean an organic wine (no sulfurs are used in organic wines), it merely relates to the vineyard management practices. Winemaking is a very organic process (in its finest form) save the sulfur.
You can always buy your two buck chuck but remember that the vineyards it grew in probably used a lot more pesticides and caused a lot more damage than a Sonoma Coast wine that was grown biodynamic by pioneering growers who care about their craft.
The costs rack up fast in the world of making great wine and the margins are slim. Don’t get me wrong, there are plenty of exceptions and some make grotesque margins. I’m simply defending the artisan that strives for a great product and tries to do it at a fair price but can’t compete with the gallos of the world. Their ethics are apples and oranges, as is their bottom line.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Jun 27, 2007 - 03:29pm PT
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Bill is correct, there are some people who can, in a blind tasting, correctly identify wines by varieties, regions etc...
But it is tough.
Master of Wine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_of_wine
I know several very experienced wine writers, winemakers, and wine buyers who have struggled to pass/get this qualification. It is tough and rigorous. And the fact that there are only 300, give or take, Masters of Wine in the world, coupled with the failure rate... let's just say that people who pass have my vote of respect when it comes to wine knowledge.
But again, as I posted earlier, Johnny Hugel's advice is the best.
"What matters is this (your nose), this (your brain) and what you like."
That last one, and what you like, is perhaps the most important.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Jun 27, 2007 - 05:35pm PT
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Hey Pat,
I have my own master of the wine universe test that I pass with every bottle.
Nice label, check.
No mold, check.
Pretty color, check.
Nice aromas check.
Tastes fair, good, great, 'let's stop talking and savor this stuff', (pick one) check
Next bottle, check
Who's driving?
Buzz
There is an interesting series of articles by Mike Steinberger, Slate’s wine columnist on the state of assessing wines at Do You Want To Be a Supertaster?
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paganmonkeyboy
Trad climber
the blighted lands of hatu
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Jun 27, 2007 - 09:50pm PT
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"which box wine is better: Vella or Franzia???"
hmmm...as a regular gulper of both, i honestly couldn't tell ya - get the 11.95 burgundy and call it good ;-)
i used to work at the finest restaurant in buffalo. all the stars, couldn't get in and out with a deuce for under a bill unless you skipped the apps and went with the lemon pepper chicken...one night someone accidentally opened a 92 when the previous bottle was a 91 (i think) of a chateauneuf de pape (de fleurry ?) so it got rejected tableside...best red i have ever had, but not 50 bucks better than the box of vella imho...
and is the louis tres worth 120 a shot ? compared to the hennesy ? not sure i buy it, but the bottles sure look pretty...
sippin smoking loon syrah right now while rallying the third 14 hour day at work - yummmmmm...
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Finn
Trad climber
Santa Rosa, CA
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Jun 28, 2007 - 01:34am PT
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Oh wow, sweet... A compliment from Crowley, ugh.
Mondivino is a great movie, worth seeing if you are somewhat interested in the subject. The guy who put it together suffers from the same things Michael Moore suffers from; brutal honesty and difficulty maintaining an unbiased view. None the less, he chronicles some very influential people who pride themselves in an ancient business.
A movie worth noting (but hardly worth seeing) is Sideways, it's done something really cool to the wine market and that's make Merlot really cheap! Enjoy it now because Merlot is a great grape and the surplus on the market right now is a real bonus for the consumer. But like everything, it's a trend and it will fall back into it's old expensive ways soon enough.
Pinot Noir is all the rage these days so it's a little tougher to find good bargains. Word on the street is that Pinot Gris is the next up and comer, I'm not sure yet but the prices sure are right.
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KP Ariza
climber
SCC
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Jun 28, 2007 - 04:24am PT
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Finn, doesn't surprise me, grape production in France is way up and Consumption is way down.The huge excess is being converted and used as a fuel source. BTW if you like the box wines stick with 'em, cause there is a ton of box wine out there being passed off in bottles with fancy labels and big price tags.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Jun 28, 2007 - 09:44am PT
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I don't know Finn, as entertainment, I thought Sideways was very entertaining.
Mondovino is a documentary I have been trying to see. I understand that it is quite good, though a bit long, and a bit repetitive, in that it asks many of the same questions to the same groups and gets the same answers. For example, all the small growers are saying the same thing, and the large conglomerates are all saying the opposite, especially about the homogenization of wine globally.
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Finn
Trad climber
Santa Rosa, CA
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Jun 28, 2007 - 12:05pm PT
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Sideways is hillarious, no doubt. But it's very serious when you take a look at the impact it had on the wine industry. The consumer numbers tilted towards Pinot and away from Merlot immediatly after that movie hit the silver screen. Wine is a very fickle product and it's incredible how much the he said/she said thing influences the market. Don't even get me started about the wine writers.
On that note - you wanna try some great Pinot ;) check out Oregon! For the price there are some incredible values out there.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Jun 28, 2007 - 03:04pm PT
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Finn, the problem with Pinot Noir (perhaps my favorite variety) is that it is difficult to find a good one at a good price.
Certainly in Ireland it is, and we get Pinots from Burgundy, California, New Zealand, Australia/Tasmania, Chile and all points beyond, and it is difficult to find good value, more so than with (perhaps) in other varietals.
Hey, what's wrong with wine writers? I write about wine (but in an informative way, not a snobbish way, believe me, honest, really). I laos know some very good Irish wine writers, and some very snobbish ones as well. As with all walks of life, it takes all kinds.
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Bill
climber
San Francisco
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"Two-Buck Chuck, less known by its formal name of Charles F. Shaw, was judged the best Chardonnay from California at the California State Fair Commercial Wine Competition, held in Sacramento."
"Since the state fair uses wine professionals as judges and the wines are tasted blind, the results stand on their own. Some 270 Chardonnays from 2005 were evaluated, so Two-Buck had plenty of competition."
From James Laube's blog at Wine Spectator.
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Bill
climber
San Francisco
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Ravenswood and Coor's?!? *gag*
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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I was going to say!!
(Since when does Coors have a vintage? LOL)
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Vintage Wednesday.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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I hear it was a very good day.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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I always thought an "Australian shiraz" was a noisy way of expressing displeasure.
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