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bigwalling
climber
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Oops, I didn't claify my commonet about it not bieing put up. I think it was a stupid idea to put it up at the time 1970. There were many other more natural lines to chose from. Mesclito is right next to it and far more natural, he could have climbed it. I don't think they had heads in 1970 though, which might be why the line required so many rivets. I have a feeling WEML was a line that shoulde have waited to been put up. I'm sure many rivets are not needed. Those pitches in Mac's topo show rivets next to fixed heads (or at least that's what it implys).
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bigwalling
climber
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Oh, if you guys go up there you should replace some of the junk dowel ladders. Do what Bryan said a while back, 1/4" with washers and a 3/8" every 6 bolts. Or something like that. It would make the route much better. But I would be pissed if there is heads next to bolts, like the Seagull and other parts. It was disapointing to clip bolts when there are heads next to you.
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Melissa
Big Wall climber
oakland, ca
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To his defense (at least regarding his claims) on this one... a 20 ft. stick with a hook (or ice tool) on the end of it, is just a really big hook and still uses a natural featured. I'm kind of partial to being able to have a gander at what I'm hooking before climbing onto it, so in a way, it's can be a sketchier if not faster way to climb. It's his FA, and I don't think it's the same thing as using a 20 foot stick to snag a fat bolt at the anchor. As long as inform people repeating it that they'll need a 20 ft. hook to pass some blank sections, it's as good if not better than drilling, IMO.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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"a 20 ft. stick with a ice tool on the end of it...."
that sounds like death on a stick!
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Irisharehere
Trad climber
Gunks
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I believe Beyers coment on such antics was
"Keeps the riff-raff away".
In Alpinist 8, he has a sidebar article, wherein he proudly spews about how he has chopped over 400 bolts.
What a wank
Irish
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha!!! There was like a fifteen- or twenty-foot hook-on-a-cheat-stick move on Scorched Earth - pretty rad! I took the tent pole that coils inside my portaledge fly, duct-taped a pointed skyhook on the end, and attached a long sling with knots tied every two feet. The damn pole had so much flex the top of it swung three feet sideways while I tried to hook the edge.
Eventually I got it to stick. Unfortunately it held, and I had no choice but to climb up the damn thing. It was a long climb. Frig. Hands sweaty thinking about it. When I got up to the hook, I looked at the edge on which I was hanging, and I had missed the "sweet spot" of the lip by about six inches! You couldn't tell from twenty feet below! Anyway, I whipped another hook on the proper part of the lip, and tried to relax.
Nothing left but another three-quarters of a pitch of old school A5 rotten hooks and heads around "Big Brother". {shrug}
See you there soon! I'll be the guy climbing in the removable cast.
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Ben Wah
Social climber
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Karl,
Like you I deplore all bolts added to Paradise Lost. I would be overjoyed to go up there with you and remove them. I will spring for the epoxy.
Write me
Ben Wah
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samanthaclimber
Big Wall climber
usa
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"Re-create the route, chopping now unnessary rivets and replacing needed ones. It wouldn't be sick but in areas where you can place heads and use hooks, beaks or anything new, the rivets are chopped."
Uhhhhh.....I think this is exactly what Beyer claims to have done. He "cleaned up" nearby routes. you think that's lame???? then you're a pussy.
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dufas
Trad climber
san francisco
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give me high sierra climbing anyday, no bolts and no buttwipes to chop them
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Diesel_Smoke
Big Wall climber
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Hmm, I'll agree that just hammering the hangers till they snap or fold is a pretty shitty chopping job. However, I don't think the right to chop should be held any lower than the right to bolt in the first place. If I have ever heard truer words, it's that climbing is anarchy - It's what you wish to make it and you really shouldn't hold any expectations or reservations.
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Ben Rumsen
Social climber
Neatherworld, USA
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Some dipshit said this - " However, I don't think the right to chop should be held any lower than the right to bolt in the first place. If I have ever heard truer words, it's that climbing is anarchy - It's what you wish to make it and you really shouldn't hold any expectations or reservations."
Then it's ok if I decide to chop everything I climb??? this guy beyer is a semen sucking stooge!
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Diesel_Smoke
Big Wall climber
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What is stopping you from chopping the bolts you don't find necessary, or all of them? What is stopping Beyer? What is stopping people from adding bolts to existing routes? Bolts get placed, bolts get chopped, and unless it's a FA, they're both renegade acts(and FAs incongruent of regional ethics can be also). Climbing is what you wish to make it - a self-justice, it can be as dangerous or as safe as you want it to be.
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Irisharehere
Trad climber
Gunks
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Sep 10, 2004 - 10:47am PT
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While he's no dobut a bad-ass aid climber, the general feeling I got from reading his sidebar article in Alpinist 8 was that he's severely antisocial, doesn't give a flying fXXk about anyone else, and is convinced that it should be his way or the highway.
But what do I know, I just flail at the Gunks ('till next Fall, when I hit the valley!)
Irish
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another Scott
climber
Richardson, TX
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Sep 10, 2004 - 12:33pm PT
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ok so the b*tch fest has sucessfully run its course...
This guy is an A$$HOLE.
So now what are we going to do about it.
The route is a part of the climbing history of the valley, and frankly I hope to do it some time in the future for that very reason.
What is the plan folks...
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Sep 10, 2004 - 12:52pm PT
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My plan is the same as your plan:
Hope that somebody with time, money and skills gets inspired for adventure and public service and fixes up the route so we go reap the benefits someday.
Thanks in advance
karl
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Gabe
Big Wall climber
Huntington Beach California
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 10, 2004 - 01:02pm PT
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The Shortest Straw beley that was smashed below the grey circle (did beyer think it was a huber beley?) was replaced by Bryan on our Zodiac clean-up. We kept the hangers and are thinking of somthing not so creative to do with'em.
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another Scott
climber
Richardson, TX
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Sep 10, 2004 - 01:55pm PT
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I lack the skill to complete the replacement but I would be willing to a$$ist in other way I can.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Sep 10, 2004 - 01:57pm PT
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Nice work, Gabe. Please extend same to your bro and Bryan.
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Matt
climber
SF
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 10, 2004 - 02:04pm PT
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My plan is the same as your plan:
Hope that somebody with time, money and skills gets inspired for adventure and public service and fixes up the route so we go reap the benefits someday.
Thanks in advance
karl
classic-
and i couldn't agree more.
seems like what comes around usually goes around, and it all seems to come out in the wash, given enough time. i just wish everyone would get as worked up over the lies of gW as they do over various misdeeds on el cap!
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Sep 10, 2004 - 02:14pm PT
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yeah, lets just hope whoever does plays by the rules and doesn't pull another T-Trip job...
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