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up2top
Big Wall climber
Phoenix, AZ
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Jul 28, 2004 - 11:52pm PT
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Can we hug now?
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Ben Wah
Social climber
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Jul 29, 2004 - 02:09am PT
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I saw on Sunday where this thread was heading, and told Bernie that a slander thread about him was brewing. He was quite pleased, and would be the more pleased if he were to read it. As one of his best friends, I feel I can say the following wih accuracy.
The reason Bernie seems so bitter and jaded to certain people is that he IS bitter and jaded, jaded by the people who come in, say they are climbers, and want to be his friend. Why? because many many people (and I have no names to name) have done just that, hoping he'll cut them a discount. When the discount is refused, they call him a jerk. After having that happen over and over again for a few years, he is leery of most people until he gets to know them, and knows that they will not put him on the spot by asking for deals they are not entitled to. If anyone could claim "pro deal by friendship" it should be me, and I do not ask for or receive discounts when I buy gear.
People who spray, add bolts, add bolts with the excuse "there was always a fixed pin there", chip and/or glue, presume to tell him he should get AAMGA certified (to sell gear?!!), and tell him he is irresponsible for freesoloing annoy him. All of these things he deals with daily. If all you do is go in, buy gear, ask for advice, and leave, he will not dislike you. If you waste his time telling him why five-ten is the best shoe on the market or asking him how to use a mini traxion, he will dislike you.
He does not care if people dislike him. Rather, he tries to foment the animosity of people who are guilty of the abovenamed (and many, many more) trespasses.
Ricardo: if you were to go in there and tell him he was a dick he would first laugh in your face, and then say "good. that is what I want you to think" Neither he nor any gang of Mexicans would bother to beat you up.
If it seems to noobs that he is extra hard on them, it is because he (and many, many more climbers) DISLIKE NOOBS ENTIRELY!!! there are already too many people climbing; there is too much impact, and these "Community minded" idiots who actually think there should be MORE people climbing are blithering imbeciles. All you noobs should stop climbing and take up golf or Bocce ball.
Ben Wah
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Dan76
Trad climber
Aberdeen, Scotland
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2004 - 04:04am PT
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>Author: Gene Social climber From: Two hours away
> When you coming over?
Next week
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Jul 29, 2004 - 06:12am PT
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Melissa's experience with Bernie is actually prety typical... She's a female. And although I've never seen her, if she's an attractive female, Bernie will give her the best customer service possible. Anyone else, for the most part can pretty much p|ss off as far as he's concerned. Or so his attitude states. He gives absolutely horrible service.
It wasn't until this year (after many of going there most weekends in the year), that he actually acknowledged me a bit. And that wasn't until he ate dinner with a friends of mine and I, who were from Spain. One of which was gorgeous. The next time he ran into me was while hanging with Dean, Ammon and Chongo.... Slackin', etc... In that company I wasn't surprised he wasn't his usually dick self. Next day, back to the "no even so much as a grunt" attitude. Doubt it will ever change. Goes to that whole "you can take the monkey out of the jungle..." saying.
As far as the store, in general, Pete is right on the money. Have had similar conversations with the store management. They also shamelessly admit to certain folks working there being assh0les. It's a sad thing that you have to PAY people to be nice to you. Especially in such a beautiful place, and given that most climbers are such laid-back, cool folks. The atmosphere in the store stinks in comparison to most other mountain stores.
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can't say
Social climber
Pasadena CA
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Jul 29, 2004 - 09:00am PT
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This is just a little bit off thread, but the whole nature of mountain shops is something thats a bit odd. For the most part it seems that the big chains (REI, Sports Chalet etc.) have taken over when it comes to the Southern California (mean graeter LA basin)
There used to be a number of privately owned shops you could shop at down here, but not anymore. Outside of Nomads, and thats out in Josh, or down in N. San Deigo county, there isn't one to be found.
Given the fact that there are close to 15 million people here (huge groan) it's amazing that at one couldn't sustain their biz in the area. With all the noobs that seem to be flocking to the sport, you would think it would be fertile ground for success.
If any of you know of a good store down here let me know cause I hate buying from the chains.
And Ben, you're right. There are way to many climbers these days and it's one of the reasons I don't go to the crags half as much as I used to. It's probably just being an grump old climber dude, but one of the big draws for me was the lack of hordes of people spoiling my wilderness experience...lol..unless of course they had a nice big sack-o-weed they wanted to share..
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David
Trad climber
San Rafael, CA
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Jul 29, 2004 - 09:32am PT
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re."If you waste his time...asking him how to use a mini traxion, he will dislike you."
Hmmm...interesting approach to selling gear. Ok, so we can we sum it up by telling Dan from Scotland that the Mountain Shop is probably his best bet for finding a large inventory of climbing gear somewhere between SFO and Camp4. Just don't ask the salesperson any specific questions about the gear you're purchasing.
If I was the owner of the store I'd want employees to be exceptionally nice to even those people who ask stupid questions but as a competent climber you should probably know how to use the gear before you buy it and try it out. I can see both sides of the fence on this one.
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Nor Cal
Trad climber
San Mateo
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Jul 29, 2004 - 10:14am PT
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Is Bernie the fellow who repaired the trigger wires on my cams? Well, he does great job of doing that.
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up2top
Big Wall climber
Phoenix, AZ
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Jul 29, 2004 - 11:21am PT
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BW -- thanks for the insight. I can see where he's coming from. I also know that if it were my business, I'd want someone else -- someone less burned out -- managing it.
Ed
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dave
climber
Oceanside
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Jul 29, 2004 - 11:30am PT
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Well, do the freakin sell curry or what?
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Melissa
Big Wall climber
oakland, ca
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Jul 29, 2004 - 12:03pm PT
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Ricardo...Thanks.
Nefarious...Your post made me laugh a bit in the same way that Ricardo's actually did b/c
1. Every spanish-speaking person, especially the Mexicans, I've ever seen interact w/ Bernie seems to totally love him, male or female. Not to say that some don't, but that's been my observation.
2. The picture that you paint of Bernie as a shameless woman chaser is a riot to me. You must have really needed a reason to explain his apparent dislike for you.
3. If he was more friendly w/ Dean, Ammon, and Chongo, it's b/c they are his friends not because they are superstars or somesuch.
There is this assumption on the part of many vacationers that they are coming to join this brotherhood of climbers in the Valley and that all climbers are therefore obliged to be their friend on sight. If you lived there year round and were forced to have your private breakfast conversations interupted on a daily basis because some buttinski stranger heard that it was the 'climber table', you might start to resent the notion that you were obliged to friendship with every dirtbag that rolled through the park gates. If enough people used you for pro deals as Ben suggested or even just to be part of some hypothetical in crowd, you might want to make people earn your friendship and respect.
David...Although I'd agree with you if someone went in and asked whether the minitraxion, pro-traxion, or some other pulley was a favorite for rope soloing, I don't' think that it's a good deal for sales people to give lessons in how to set up rope solo systems (which is what I think Ben was alluding to) or lessons on anchoring systems, belays, and other equipment-associated basic life-preserving stuff. Their's a lot of liability associated with that, and it takes a lot of time to do well anyway. That's what the guide school is for.
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mooch
Trad climber
Fresno
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Jul 29, 2004 - 06:12pm PT
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"They sell Curry in the Mountain Shop?"
No, but I'm sure some of the hot tourist Indian babes will give you a sample of their "curry". Very spicy!
Austin is probably the best steward to the Mountain Shop. If you feel everyone else is stuffy there, talk to that dude. Better yet....get in some climbs with him.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Jul 29, 2004 - 06:56pm PT
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{shaking my head in amazement}
Here is an example of the logic stream that Melissa applied to Randy's [nefarius'] post above:
"All fish have scales.
A snake has scales.
Therefore a snake is a fish."
{insert dumbass smilie here}
One would think that someone with a freaking Ph.D. could demonstrate a more rigorous scientific method. One of her better efforts at "putting words in someone's mouth".
Bloody 'ell.....
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jul 29, 2004 - 06:58pm PT
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DavisGunkie,
I had heard that Granite Arch was going to stop selling gear and use the space for more kids area/routes. So I haven't been there in a long time. I'm glad to hear that didn't happen. So I'll keep them in mind next time I need something.
I have to agree that it seems surprising that the big box stores (e.g. REI) can muscle out the other climbing shops by selling high priced clothing and minimal climbing gear. About the only place you get good gear shops are the smaller locals like J-Tree.
I was sad when the old, plain jain, mail order place (I want to say ClimbHigh, but that's not quite right--the originator of the Ricky Rat) sold out to Shoreline.
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Matt
Trad climber
SF Bay Area
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Jul 29, 2004 - 07:12pm PT
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alas, my dear peter, we all know that you would like her a lot better if only she were to like, like you a little better, isn't that right, mate?
word on the street is that she is way too old for you anyways...
(can we get some decent slander going around here for once? if no one is gonna break w/ the details for ricardo of all the mexican drug lords anually beating the crap outta bernie, maybe we could instead get someone to rehash that stuf about dr. piton lookin for dates in the school yard crap again? i could never be bothered to read all that scattered stuff, but if anyne wants to summarize, i for one will read it w/ a cold beer in my hand- hurry though, the weekend is almost here!)
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Jul 29, 2004 - 09:24pm PT
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Melissa:
1. I speak Spanish.
2. Was only ONE of several examples I've seen. Hell, I suppose we're (men) mostly guily of that though, so can't fault him too much.
3. Didn't say he treated my friends any better than myself during that instance.
4. You must have some apparent reason to totally defend him to make such a judgement that there is some reason for him to dislike me. I certainly didn't elude to that, nor did I take that from anyone else who said similar things.
I simply made the point that for the most part, he has an extremely grating personality unless there's something in it for him, whatever that may be. I honestly could care less, just stating an opinion. There are plenty of other people working there that are fine, and strangely share this view... Hmmm...??? Seems majority of customers do as well. Regardless of any of this crap, doesn't effect my day, nor my sends.
As for the rest of your shpeel... Never even mentioned approaching him anywhere or bothering him during a meal. Simply was stating that he has a very unprofessional demeanor at his job. Regardless of who you are, where you work, etc., the way you handle yourself, and others, reflects who you are personally (as well as your employer) and whether or not others will respect you and want to associate with you. Pretty elementary stuff here. You learn stuff like this all through grade school... Again, seems majority sees it one way here.
I find it totally amusing that a conversation about a customer service guy, hundreds of miles away is so offensive to you. Possibly much in the same way it was here mentioned that Bernie might find it amusing to make people dislike him.
Cheers!
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moabbeth
Trad climber
Los Angeles/Moab
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Jul 29, 2004 - 09:25pm PT
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"This is just a little bit off thread, but the whole nature of mountain shops is something thats a bit odd. For the most part it seems that the big chains (REI, Sports Chalet etc.) have taken over when it comes to the Southern California (mean graeter LA basin)
There used to be a number of privately owned shops you could shop at down here, but not anymore. Outside of Nomads, and thats out in Josh, or down in N. San Deigo county, there isn't one to be found.
Given the fact that there are close to 15 million people here (huge groan) it's amazing that at one couldn't sustain their biz in the area. With all the noobs that seem to be flocking to the sport, you would think it would be fertile ground for success.
If any of you know of a good store down here let me know cause I hate buying from the chains."
Dude, you live in Pasadena...you have the Outland Mountain Shop right there in Pasadena!!! I'd be stoked to have that near me. They don't have a gigantic inventory but stock a lot of technical climbing gear (cams, nuts, biners, aid gear), packs, ice climbing gear...it's a good little local shop. And they are having trouble competeing against beheamoths like the evil REI. So head on over there, here's their website link:
http://www.mountainoutlet.com/
And ask for Pat, he's a good friend of mine and will take good care of ya. And everyone there is super friendly, climb a lot, and have a great attitude so it's a good atmosphere.
There's also Adventure 16, which has stores in SoCal. There's one near me in West LA. It also has a good atmosphere and has a good selection of climbing gear as well.
Whatever you do, do NOT shop at REI. Don't feed the beast that's killing off local climbing stores. They are the Wal-Mart of the outdoor retail industry.
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the Fet
Trad climber
Loomis, CA
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Jul 30, 2004 - 02:48pm PT
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>there are already too many people climbing; there is too much >impact, and these "Community minded" idiots who actually think >there should be MORE people climbing are blithering imbeciles.
If there are already too many people climbing YOU should stop, since you're the only one you have control over.
When is the magic date after which no new climbers are allowed? Right after you started climbing I assume.
I climbed last weekend at an awesome wall with no one around, put up a couple FAs, and didn't see another climber. Price: 1.5 hour approach and a little imagination.
It's only going to get worse, far worse in terms of number of climbers. You better accept that or you'll end up quite bitter.
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Ben Wah
Social climber
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Jul 30, 2004 - 11:39pm PT
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The Fet:
I am already quite bitter, as some of my posts should imply.
Right after I began would be a great cutoff date. Please implement it on yourself.
In an effort to cut down on crowdedness at the crags, I DID quit climbing, for four years. Sort of like a rolling blackout, if you will.
I know there will always be more and more climbers, but I feel that the tide of noobs should at least be stemmed, not PURPOSEFULLY INCREASED by advertising, magazines, TV etc. There are few worthwhile activities that improve with crowds.
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Loom
climber
The Sierra or Merdead
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Pardon The Pedophilia Pete had a problem with Mel's logic skills. I have another syllogism for him:
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Bernie does not suffer fools gladly.
Pete, Ricardo, et al appear ridiculous because they wear their need to be acknowledged and validated like an ill-fitted suit of motley; by more than one definition they are fools.
Therefore, Bernie treats Pete, Ricardo, et al with disdain.
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If you are a fool and don't like to be treated as such or are offended by such bad business practices, plan ahead, go elsewhere, and come to the valley well-provisioned.
This is off topic, but let's talk about fools. There are fools who lead and other fools who follow those worthless leaders (GW and the electorate spring to mind). What kind of fools hang on every word of climbing advice from a guy who has UNINTENTIONALLY DROPPED HIS HAULBAG TWICE. The only reason this insurance salesman has gotten up anything difficult is because he takes forever and drills the hell out of it (Jolly Roger for instance). He recently broke his leg on WSR, but only because he was on the first pitch and he was afraid someone would see him drilling a chicken bolt.
I find his emotional neediness embarrassing; he wants your attention sooo much. I remember sitting in El Cap meadow with Minerals and Klaus a couple years ago, Pete walked up and struck up a conversation. It soon became clear what he wanted; he relentlessly steered the conversation. Our queries about his most recent unplanned pig ejection slid off him like slime off a slug. His shameless, self-deprecating humor that many find disarming managed to parry our jabs, as he single-mindedly pursued his dream of an empire of knoob worshipers. He wanted to use Klaus's name as co-author of an article he was writing for the rags. Klaus wouldn't have to do anything, but just lend his name. Of course this was intended to raise Pete's street cred, rep, whatever, and bring more adulation his way. He wanted to see his name next to Eric's (and have you see it too) so bad he probably would have offered to fellate him if Minerals and I hadn't been there.
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dougs510
Trad climber
Nashville, TN.
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Whooo.... I've definately been argueing with pappy over on SCC far too long and have missed out on this wonderful flamage. Don't know Bernie..... however, I've spent lots' of time and money in the mtn shop and everyone has always been cool to me.
I did run accross this one dude who struck me as arrogant. but the guy I'm thinking of doesn't work in the mtn shop, I'm fairly sure he is a YOS guide as I've seem him at swan slab showing folks in helmets how to do hand jams.....
maybe just confident.... perhaps.... maybe he just don't like gabbing w/ every climber he runs into on a daily basis. It's like, who wants to talk about their job ALL THE TIME.... I sure don't. So what if he doesn't befriend everyone he meets? So what if he considers himself elite. No skin off my knuckles.
But as far as the mtn shop, their all way cool to me, and there's this one chick... she's pretty hot. Hey Melissa, maybe you could hook me up with her :)
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