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JLP
Social climber
Fargo, MN
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Mar 10, 2007 - 08:17pm PT
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I have to concur with rgold's comments, especially about payrolling climbers to be princes and princesses.
Mountain Hardware is the new Patagonia. They've been doing a better job serving alpinists, and are what Patagonia used to be.
Patagonia is the new Eddie Bauer. They have been doing an excellent job serving yuppies. Ironically for both producer and consumer, this is the image Patagonia fancied itself as countering.
 JLP
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Mar 10, 2007 - 08:38pm PT
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hey brad,
dude,
i feel bad for anyone losing their job. that sucks. truly. but we all choose our paths to some extent.
fact still remains,
my garbage man does more for humanity on a far larger scale than any climbing ambassador.
and nobody is gonna shed tears when he loses his job except you when your trash doesnt get picked up.
and i will tell you, dean and whoever else that...
so kiss my ass...
in case you dont know juan is a troll...he gets his rocks of by trolling...
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d-know
Trad climber
electric lady land
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Mar 10, 2007 - 08:45pm PT
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sounds like brad brokeboner lynch
got his feelers hurt by juan.
nice job juan.
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reddirt
climber
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Mar 10, 2007 - 08:49pm PT
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wait until they see how much their COBRA payments are gonna be... (if they were give health ins in the first place)
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Mar 10, 2007 - 09:04pm PT
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"in case you dont know juan is a troll...he gets his rocks of by trolling..."
Funny how a somewhat dysfunctional family comes to love and tolerate each other.
Hey bro, that hostess is kinda cute but she wears WAY too much make-up, what's her story...
Dude...that's cause she's a HE..
Not that this has anything to do with firing the diplomats. Who else knows what really happened?
Too bad this isn't golf and Lynne could just retire on her mega-millions
Peace
Karl
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Timmy O'neil
climber
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Mar 10, 2007 - 09:43pm PT
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That "brad lynch" poster is an imposter, and i am not on the Grand Canyon right now.
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 10, 2007 - 09:47pm PT
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Koan response "....and i am not on the Grand Canyon right now."
Yes so true, the driver of the car is in the body ......
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deuce4
Big Wall climber
the Southwest
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Mar 10, 2007 - 09:48pm PT
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Hey Timmy O'Neil with one l-
If you're the real Timmy, then tell me who was your belayer in the film "Guardian Angel"?
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Timmy O'neil
climber
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Mar 10, 2007 - 09:51pm PT
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deucey, you know the answer: god.
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Timmy O'neill
climber
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Mar 10, 2007 - 10:00pm PT
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hey, its me. if you don't believe me, check my email adress.
some dick took my name, so this forum added \\\ to it.
email me for details of this saga.
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Mar 10, 2007 - 10:00pm PT
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This is a slippery business. Obviously, the top performers in most any legitimate sport - from bass fishing to lawn bowling to basketball - usually manuage to derive their livlinood from the sport. It might be a little different in largely non-spectator sports like climbing, where direct personal experience is the main reward. But it's not the only reward, and over the years a lot or the richness I've gotten out of climbing came from reading the exploits of others, getting some sense of the historical record, seeing what's happening here and there and far away, chiming in with my own opinions (far less these days) and reading the opinions and smack of the Top Dogs and all their detractors.
Having had friends who were ambassadors or team members for both Patagonia and North Face I can say for certain that their salaries were not close to even a mid-manager in the company. That is, you can be the best climber in the universe, and take the big risks every time, but you'll get a CPA's wages (if that much). You'll travel the country in your own rust bucket giving slide shows on behalf of the boss company (who will provide no booking or press agent at all). Your name and likeness will be exploited to the last degree but the salary remains very low on the sports pay scale even though Patagonia and North Face CEO's get million dollar bonus' for their part of the deal.
IMO, there's so few fully sponsored climbers that to nix the whole thing seems like thankless old-school thinking. People from my generation (70s) didn't get or expect sponsorship because the sport was too small. Now there are more than a few companies within the climbing world that are worth in excess of 50 million, some five times that, and more. If you were to look at other action sports where the pie is of roughly the same dimensions as climbing, you'd almost certainly see sponsored athletes makeing far more.
I think sponsoring all but the very, very best folks is not a great plan - but when the best are held back for lack of funds, when their big dreams are never realized, we're all the losers for that. But none of this is easy in a non-competative sport. While some companies will probably say the sponsorship thing was not working out with their "message" or moral position, who really knows what's true.
Question is, wonder what Patagonia-sporsored surfers like Gerry Lopez and the Malloy brothers are making? Answer that question and you'll know a whole lot more about all of this.
JL
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder
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Mar 10, 2007 - 10:05pm PT
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Great POST Largo.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Mar 10, 2007 - 10:13pm PT
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So there may be two questions or more
1. Should climbing companies sponsor climbers and how should that work? Hands off? Hands on?
2. What happens if the sponsored climber(s) run publically afoul of the government and public opinion numerous times during a single year. Can one? Can all? Could be a choice between reigning them in or letting them be free but not supporting it.
I don't think the answers to any of it are clear. We'll have to wait for the real reason, which might even be some other thing like liability, (the reason YC got away from Black Diamond in the first place I hear)
Peace
Karl
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Mar 10, 2007 - 10:21pm PT
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john.
Your name and likeness will be exploited to the last degree but the salary remains very low on the sports pay scale even though Patagonia and North Face CEO's get million dollar bonus' for their part of the deal.
this is different than any other business because?....
sorry.
i never was a sponsored climber and i admire them for their talents.
but like all sports, they offer very little to the basic needs of humankind...
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Mar 10, 2007 - 10:30pm PT
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hawkeye wrote: but like all sports, they offer very little to the basic needs of humankind...
Very few Mother Teresa's in the climbing world.
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deuce4
Big Wall climber
the Southwest
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Mar 10, 2007 - 10:34pm PT
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No way. The real Timmy has never failed to make me laugh out loud with a spontaneous quip any time he speaks OR writes. Obviously these cyber Timmy's are fakes.
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brochbonar
Social climber
boulder
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Mar 10, 2007 - 10:41pm PT
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Hawkeye, you have a point...I would be super bummed if the garbage men went on strike. this happened once when I was a teenager in new jersey, and it sucked. the whole town smelled like death-could't get away from it.
But you could just do what Timmy did. He was too cheap to pay city utilities in boulder for years, so he just took his garbage to whatever dumpster was availible and lobbed it in!.
And by the way...the real Timmy wanted to be a garbage man when he grew up. Says he still may do it.
And yes, he is on a boating trip down the G.C....and I offer you this proof;
http://timmyoneill.com/schedule.html
And to you, Mr. imposter, name your six siblings- if your the real dea...but WAIT! A Patagonia damage control agent my know this as well, so name them in the order you allways do, and tell me wich one was the last to doss on our couch!
So if you e-mail the patagonia address and get a response...IT"S A MOLE!!!!
And let's just all be nice now...
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Timmy O'neill
climber
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Mar 10, 2007 - 10:55pm PT
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brochbonar, if you really knew me, you would know our put in was delayed until the 12th. So i am sitting here in phoenix in a best western waiting for the others (who arrive tomorrow). Monday we drive to lee's ferry, and we are off on our trip.
call me on my cell. oops, you don't have my number, imposter.
ps. to prove you know me, post he Brand AND model of the paddle i use. (careful, its not werner or braun).
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brochbonar
Social climber
boulder
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Mar 10, 2007 - 11:05pm PT
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Timmy's cell # is on his web site, as is his e-mail-he gladly shares both with his adoring public. I won't post it here, but anyone can look them up and give him a call.
It will say "hey, you've reached Timmy O'Neill, go ahead and leave me a message, thanks."
you will get this message untill he returns on the 25th.
and that other guy has a point...if your Timmy, make us all roll out of our chairs with laughter...you have exactly two minutes...the real Timmy could do it in less...
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0uch!
climber
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Mar 10, 2007 - 11:10pm PT
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You guys are so immature. Faking email address in order to pose as someone else on the internet?!?!?
Grow up!
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