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Micah Dash
climber
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Badinfluence: Nearly every day I go climbing I'm impressed by the level of skill and talent of the climbers around me. There are to many talented climbers to count these days.
But, I hate to tell ya, as far as climbing on hard and run-out terrain in the mountains, Josh and Zack are some of the best.
It's the duty of an Alpinst to report on their ascents and attempts.
For the record Rob; Zack and Josh didn't chop anything on the route.
Micah
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mbb
climber
the slick
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Who cares if they are good climbers, they still obviously went at this route for the hype (the proof of this is in the email reports on their progress to Climbing mag) and, believe it or not, even good climbers can be asswipes. The only reason they would want to chop a historical route like that is for publicity, and look, they got it, and they didn't even chop the route or make it to the top. Nice one guys!
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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I haven't climbed in Patagonia, and haven't yet received the new issue of Alpinist, which I gather has a piece about this. The information up thread is confusing, but it sounds like there was at least an attempt to remove some of the bolts placed on the southwest ridge of Cerro Torre by Cesare Maestri and party in 1970.
Whatever the climbers in question did or didn't do, and did and didn't say, needs to be clarified.
Does anyone know whether the climbers in question informed the relevant climbing communities, before the fact, of their intentions? Especially with the internet, it's not hard to tell the world "We plan to free climb the southwest ridge of Cerro Torre, and while doing so to remove all the bolts/the unneeded bolts", or whatever the plan was, and see where it goes.
Informed pre facto debate seems much preferable when it comes to adding or removing bolts from existing routes, however questionable the route may have been, and however righteous you may be.
The ethos of the climbing community local to the climb, and the views of those who created the route (if ascertainable), also seem critical. Some areas and countries are quite protective of their climbing resources; if you don't care for the prevailing ethos (no bolts in England; excessive bolts in France and Spain), we're lucky enough that we can climb elsewhere.
We need to have means to resolve these questions within the climbing community. A little less ego and frontier mentality might also help.
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Bart Fay
Social climber
Redlands, CA
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I just wanted to see if this looked as ridiculous when I posted (& corrected) it.
>>>It's the duty of an Alpinist to report on their ascents and attempts.
Yup.
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TwistedCrank
climber
Hell
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Some people need to keep their hormones in check.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Mal posted: Does Cerro Torre deserve to have a trade route on it that was put up in the poorest form imagineable? Should its historic status make it permanent? If you successfully climb the Compressor Route, have you really climbed Cerro Torre?
Those are tough questions. It was done. It is a part of climbing history (arguably significant climbing history, for better or for worse).
Surely not the only line on that peak (especially now, with the ascents folks have made in the last several years, hugely proud ascents of their own historical accord).
Erase or remove it? I say no way.
Still pisses me off that someone chopped Beckey's route on Zeus in Taylor Creek...
Are bolt ladders poor style? Debatable. There's a ton of climbs that benefit from bolt ladders, rivets, hook holes, that otherwise wouldn't be "connectable" for mere mortals.
Should some summits only be available to the elite climbing community? At what cost? At what risk?
The whole arguement smacks of a tad bit of elitism. I'm an "average" climber, with average skills, jack of all trades, master of none. Should spectacular summits and positions be off limits to me 'cause I don't have the horsepower, skills, or am risk averse to certain types of climbing? Sure, if that's the only game in town. But, in this case, its not the only game in town, but, sounds like someone wants to take that option away. I don't agree with it.
Seems like there is virgin terrain 10 feet in either direction from the Compressor Route. Go do that. But messing with someone else's route, 'cause you don't agree with the style, that's bad form, methinks. Sure, something to be critical of. But, isn't time and effort better spent doing something of your own that is proud, rather than picking on, and possibly even erasing other folks' efforts? Seems petty. Especially for those born long after the deed was done.
This is a great topic that can apply across a TON of terrain...
-Brian in SLC
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pc
climber
East of Seattle
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Hmmm...
Did they chop or not?
Did they wanna chop but couldn't?
If peter piper chopped a chunk of patagonia compressor,
how many chunks of patagonia compressor did peter piper chop?
pc
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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I think it's weak to call the compressor route so lame when Maestri was the guy making real progress up there so long ago. If it was so easy why weren't other studs up there sending it back in the day? Harding used the Dolt cart and tons of fixed lines on the Nose and drilled a bolt ladder to the summit that could have been freed at 12b!
So I hear that bolts were chopped and bolts weren't chopped. If not, what was Shipoopi doing knocking down a tent and then getting knocked down. Folks sound like they are getting in contact with the players but things are gettting less clear, not more clear.
I definately don't think that Cerro Torre should bet pruned so that only elite climbers can do it (and escape from it) in good weather. It's dangerous enough as it is up there.
Of course, we could also cut down all the fixed lines on Everest and go knock all the fixed ladders into crevasses too.
Let's continue to try to get all sides of the story. Just the facts (plus spray and lies)
Peace
Karl
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Darnell
Big Wall climber
Chicago
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I am waiting for Peter to pipe up before I draw a conclusion.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Otto, NC
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Re: this comment "they still obviously went at this route for the hype"--
Attempting to definitively state the motives of others is folly. It's hard enough to figure out one's own.
Mighty Hiker:
http://www.alpinist.com/doc/ALP18/newswire-cerro-torre-compressor-wharton-smith
Micah-
Good to hear they didn't actually chop. Good to hear you stick up for your friends' character.
So Bean's made Chalten 'his' town for what, a year now? Two? Hopefully this localitis-nouveau, and its ugly symptoms, is a rumor as well.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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one of the freakin hilarious hings is that the alPENIS drivel says that athey climbed runout 5.10+.
wow, like that aint never been done b4.
micah, whats the story?
is alPENIS yankin our chain?
or are your buds out for PUBICITY?
which is it?
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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micah said,
"It's the duty of an Alpinst to report on their ascents and attempts."
KISS AND TELL RIGHT?
i dont know who the f*#k you are except for some stupid frickin substory in the new IC guide about not using tape being manly. is this along the same lines?
just curious...
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Maldaly: "The OP's post doesn't even touch on how juicy the scene actually was. "
What a tease...
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Otto, NC
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Duty of a sponsored Alpinist, maybe.
Not so sure about those who have no one but themselves to answer to.
Anyhow, Hawkeye, you should back off of Micah a bit. He's not responsible for what his friends do, much less for what they're rumored to have done. All he's done is to speak up for their character, vision, and ability.
And maybe for the duty of people who don't pay for gear.
But who the f*ck he is, is someone who's willing to use his name on his posts to stick up for his buds. Not sure what this has to do with tape.
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Mr.T
Big Wall climber
topanga
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This is so great. Sounds kind of like Robbins going up to erase WOEML and deciding the climbing was difficult enough to warrant the bolts - these boys resorted to using the bolts because they couldn't get up it without them. So are all the bolts they didn't use "up for removal", but the ones they had to use "necessary"...? Ha Ha Ha. I love the idea of the removal of the compressor route's bolts (and compressor), the continued "cleaning" of el cap's trade routes, and Karl's (or anybody's) stripping of fixed lines and ladders on Everest.
I think we'll get to the point eventually where difficulty and purity in popular mountian regions has to be "created" by removing crap that others put there in the past. People will say that if you're looking for real adventure, go someplace else, and I agree - but there simply is only one Cerro Torre, Everest, and El Cap. Lot's of folks won't like it, because it's gonna be more difficult for them to get up the things, but let's keep'm clean!!!!!
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wbw
climber
'cross the great divide
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If chopping the bolts on the Compressor Route (whether it actually happened or not) is supposed to be some kind of statement, who is the intended audience? Or is it an attempt to keep Cerro Torre a summit to be had only by elite climbers. I remember reading Marc Twight lamenting the way in which pedestrian routes were going up in the Mt. Blanc massif, but I could never get past thinking that his motives were more about keeping average folks out of his playground than anything else.
I removed a bolt 20 years ago that had been placed on rappel, close to a crack on an obscure crag in Wyoming. In retrospect, my own motives for doing so were pretty dubious, and I cannot believe that I had enough time to obsess on something so insignificant. That's not to say that climbing is not important, or that the way in which we climb doesn't matter. It does. But come on, the Compressor Route has been in place for how many decades?
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WBraun
climber
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Ah right, Cool.
Gang wars, turf wars on crags and mountains. The objective dangers have become diversified. Bodyguards will be needed.
Riley can probably get a new job. Maybe even fattrad.
Just wait it should get even better?
I just had to add my own 2 cents worthless drivel to this thread.
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LittleCotton-er
Ice climber
provo
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 2, 2007 - 03:37pm PT
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you ask for facts, here is what i know for FACT
-they tried to remove the bolts, but it was too hard to do with the tools they had at the moment.
-they did not tell any of the climbers below them or in camp they were out to chop the route.
-steve took poles from their tent, put inside tent, and covered it nicely with some rokks.
-steve yelled at josh.
-bean assulted steve snieder from yosemite.
-they went back up and "summited" below the top, but chopped nothing i know of.
-they did not summit the mushroom. this came from three basque climbers behind them, and from steve s and dave t.
-they used all of the bolted belays and rappels on route, not just headwall of ascent.
-local climbers voted to keep route, and for local climbers to remain in lead for future decisons.argentines, not others, no matter how hard they climb.
-alpinist article is misleading and weak as sh#t.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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drivel upon drivel right werner?
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WBraun
climber
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-they went back up and "summited" below the top,
What does that mean?
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