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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 25, 2019 - 08:40pm PT
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Worked with this cool unassuming guy that sold his tent company to BD...He’d tried some rock route on Everest and had done some nasty alpine routes in Alaska.. After viewing some lame-ass documentary on Retards doing the conga on Everest , I asked Todd if he wanted to go back up to Everest...” F*#k no “ was his short answer...” being at that elevation is like a bad case of the flu “..
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Majid_S
Mountain climber
Karkoekstan, Former USSR
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May 25, 2019 - 11:43pm PT
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internet made it like that ok
facebook, instgram,blah blah blah took every little place we had to ourselves from us
next time you do FA, keep it a secret, no need to write TR
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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May 26, 2019 - 12:09am PT
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hey there, say, TWP and all...
this has been very interesting, to hear everyone's thoughts and shares...
and, in a pretty civil way, ...
some of our LAST BITS of taco, here...
thank you all for sharing and giving different aspects to think on, as to all this...
rile-- i saw the photo, and at first, it was hard to believe, yet--
by now, i have learned that THAT is so...
jan-- i always love to hear your personal news, as to teh sherpas, etc...
thank you all...
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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May 26, 2019 - 07:39am PT
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Majid, the Genie is out of the bottle....no secrets anymore. The only things that will determine the size of crowds will be the quality of climbing and the access. The Seven Summits are their own special category....the ultimate bucket list ticks for the privileged with good motors.
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formerclimber
Boulder climber
CA
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May 26, 2019 - 07:59am PT
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internet made it like that ok
facebook, instgram,blah blah blah took every little place we had to ourselves from us
next time you do FA, keep it a secret, no need to write TR
Yes...
The internet hype is also partially responsible for real estate overpricing/bubble in the Western states, drawing the hordes to move to inhospitable environments that lack water to support these populations (even Phoenix is having a bubble now)
One should keep their secrets to themselves. I was once asked to write a book/guide about my favorite semi-secret camping areas...heck no - never.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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May 27, 2019 - 12:57am PT
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The internet hype is also partially responsible for real estate overpricing/bubble in the Western states, drawing the hordes to move to inhospitable environments that lack water to support these populations
total BS, there were boom and bust cycles long before the internet existed. Back in the 80s they said that sunny weather for the Rose Bowl parade would cause 10k people to move to California. Can you really blame the TV? The population was migrating to the coasts long before social media.
Climbing went mainstream before the widespread use of the internet. What did climbers do before social media? I remember pouring over the new climbs each month in Climbing Magazine. Any yeah, the mags had the slander going on too. It is just real time now, instead of monthly installments.
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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May 27, 2019 - 06:37am PT
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There are parts of the conversation that remind me of how Alan Shepard / Scott Glenn supposedly characterized the danger in their first ascents into space. There was little (or nothing) they could really control. They strapped rockets to their backs and took their faith in the grace of god.
There are many things that one can do with significant probabilities of death. Anyone ascending into a death zone, no matter with how much support, qualifies for being in the activity. Ever had cancer?
"Climbing Everest?" seems to be a meaningless question.
I smile at what Jan wrote: "You troll, I point out hypocrisy. Nothing personal."
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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May 27, 2019 - 07:34am PT
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I don’t think the question posed is about ascending into the “death zone.” The question is what to call the process currently in use to get people there. Depends on your definition of what climbing is. It’s not climbing in my book when you have a huge monetary incentive to herd as many people as possible, by any means necessary, into a place where, frankly, many of them shouldn't be.
Alex Lowe once told me that after guiding Everest successfully he realized that he didn't have the proper margin of saftey to deal with sudden adverse conditions that his inexperienced clients would not be able to cope with. Alex decided not to guide on Everest again. This was the year before the tragedy that led to the book “Into Thin Air.”
I have serious concerns about the current situation where people who have marginal climbing skills are herded up Everest with enormous Sherpa support, fixed ropes and copious oxygen.
Climbing, to me, means carrying your own gear, pitching your own tent, and negotiating mountainous terrain without the aid of fixed ropes provided by paid employees.
I don’t believe people should be in the “death zone” on Himalayan peaks solely because they have the desire and money to do so. I believe that people who venture there should have a long apprenticeship during which they have developed the personal skill set to deal with the adverse conditions that can develop so quickly. I also believe that using fixed ropes placed by others to negotiate difficult terrain is more like ascending a via ferrata than climbing. I also believe that on a mountain you should cook the food you eat and carry and set up the tent you sleep in. Being in the high mountains should be based on the skills that you have developed and not about the money you paid others to get you there.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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May 27, 2019 - 09:16am PT
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You invented a new word, Jim "fuxed ropes" Sounds appropriate for the Everest sh**t show
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TWP
Trad climber
Mancos, CO & Bend, OR
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Topic Author's Reply - May 27, 2019 - 09:16am PT
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Donini has come right out and stated the case "why" the Jetsetters climbing Everest are in fact, NOT "climbing."
Those factors are the exact ones I had in mind when beginning this thread in the first place.
Now I will offer a story that offers a comparison diametrically the opposite of the Sherpa-assisted, oxygen-supported, Hilton-in-th- High Mountains, via ferreta that has become "climbing" Everest.
With apologies for the crime of self-aggrandizement, I offer a personal trip report of my own climbing in 1971 of the high volcanoes of Mexico. Should be obvious after reading it that I can criticize the current state of affairs from a position of having "walked the walk" of a different style.
http://www.supertopo.com/tr/Reminiscences-of-Improbable-Success-on-Mexicos-High-Volcanos-Popo-and-Citlalteptl/t12631n.html
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 27, 2019 - 09:21am PT
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If we’ve all agreed that this isn’t ‘climbing’ then why are we still talking about it?
Like the Nepalese gubmint is gonna listen to us?
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
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May 27, 2019 - 10:47am PT
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"fuxed ropes" on Everest about sums it up.
Meanwhile, the Nepalese Dept. of Tourism has taken notice of all the international criticism (and the possibility that it may deter future $11,000 climbing permits) and have stated that one solution might be to keep the season open longer. Right now the official end is May 30 but the season could be extended with more repair work to the khumbu glacier which melts and shifts more every day.
The other possibility would be to publicize and encourage post monsoon climbing in October though it is much colder then.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
The Ocean
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May 27, 2019 - 02:36pm PT
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I remember a couple long conversations I had with Alex Lowe about Skiing Everest. He scared me when he told me he passed out up there while doing without Os. Alex freaking Lowe was pushed to the max up there.
I decided I did not want to die skiing.The Khumbu seems like the dumbest route I have seen people do on any mountain. Decided only a person with poor judgement or someone desperate for money would do the Khumbu. Russian Roulette is an idiotic game.
I lost respect for anyone who does it the way most people do it these days.
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JOEY.F
Gym climber
It's not rocket surgery
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May 27, 2019 - 04:19pm PT
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Just read another guy from Colorado perished today.
He and the guy from Utah seemed to have had a lot of experience under their belts.
I agree with you Donini and the OP, regarding the definition of climbing. However, their motivation I find admirable.
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Stewart Johnson
Gym climber
top lake
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May 27, 2019 - 08:16pm PT
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No oxygen no sherpas
Four people
New route on sight
Those were the days on mt Everest
Kangchung face
In 1988
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zBrown
Ice climber
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May 27, 2019 - 11:22pm PT
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^Looks like five to me, but you are the expert here! :)
What is "Mountain?"
Eh
By what standards should we measure “the best mountains in the world”?
Should it the most popular mountains? The biggest and tallest mountains? The most challenging for climbers? Or perhaps the most historically significant to the region in which they’re found?
For us, the best mountains are those that capture the imagination of locals and visitors alike. The ones that have played a role in local folklore for centuries, and which continue to draw travelers from around the world today.
It’s not just size that matters here. It’s the dynamic landscapes. It’s the flora and fauna found in the area. Chances are good that, if a mountain has been protected by National Park or UNESCO World Heritage Site status, it’s probably worthy of your bucket list consideration.Underlined
https://greenglobaltravel.com/top-10-mountains-in-the-world-for-your-world-travel-bucket-list/
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HeschMonster
Trad climber
Morro Bay
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May 27, 2019 - 11:31pm PT
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Werner, not to get too off topic here but that one's been pretty well debunked, there's little to no evidence that he actually summited.
Kilian Jornet ran up and down twice in 2017 without supplemental oxygen without Sherpas.
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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May 28, 2019 - 12:18am PT
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there's little to no evidence that he actually summited.
says who? more info please.
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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May 28, 2019 - 06:49am PT
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If I climb a hill in my yard is that climbing?
No... But to some folks it is a mountain. I will never frown upon anyone trying to climb a mountain. We all have our reasons to do crap. Thumbs up and great job is my reply.
One mans anthill is another mans treasure. Who am I to judge?
Hugh or Qball
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