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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Thanks for the perspective...It gets old being a brain washed stoo......
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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A dead Bush is a good thing.'-gnome
I'll drink to that.
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WBraun
climber
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but still had a career that is impressive.
Impressive killer, murderer, assassinator, drug runner, genocide and list goes and on and on ......
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ecdh
climber
the east
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I leave accusation and prosecution of criminality to those who know what the f*#k all that means.
Me, I'm just a lowly strategy analyst, and I see H W as perhaps the last president with a somewhat cohesive strategic policy, which was easy in that time. He was part owner of f*#king it thereafter tho, then Clinton (his protege no less) f*#ked it irreparably. Oh well. Downhill from there till current sh#t bag is just strategizing like a guy selling redbull events at a car show... Makes my job hard.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Braun...If you don't have anything nice to say.....
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ecdh
climber
the east
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Then supply the list. Those are big claims so show the research.
I'm not doubting it mind, guys like H W fronted huge and complex operations like we don't see anymore, but rather than shout cliches post details of the accusations and investigations. There's process to that sh#t you know. Reference it or do as trump does and think saying big words circumvents showing evidence.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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That sh#t is classified and won't be released until next week in the 15 and under aisle...
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ecdh
climber
the east
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Right, that's how the case is made, with actual examples. Tho it takes an entire chain of command to make it happen, a guy like H W knew how it worked as he'd played all the roles.
Responsible? For his part yes but not all. Between commander in chief and trigger-puller there's a lot of checks in place, tho as you say, most are cowards in some wY. H W was good at playing them, tho I doubt he concerned with the details.
Which is my point - presidents since haven't making them isolated stooges. And that's how to judge a president.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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EDIT
WATCHING THE FUNERAL
What tremendous outpouring of respect, IMPRESSIVE WORDS OF THE GREAT DEEDS at the gathering for the remembrance!
ecdh
climber
the east
No, I rate them on their careers in the political continuum with president as only one of those positions. H W was already in the decline but still had a career that is impressive.
Criminality, that's another subject, but H W ranks nowhere special. All presidents and top ranking politicians are on that scale.
H W got away with more than most.
So yeah, I rank presidents according to breadth of career. 25 years of working in international policy has done that to my thinking. In my gig it works.
Perhaps if I were american I'd think otherwise.
yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Dec 4, 2018 - 07:45pm PT
I leave accusation and prosecution of criminality to those who know what the f*#k all that means.
Me, I'm just a lowly strategy analyst, and I see H W as perhaps the last president with a somewhat cohesive strategic policy, which was easy in that time. He was part owner of f*#king it thereafter tho, then Clinton (his protege no less) f*#ked it irreparably. Oh well. Downhill from there till (the(sic) current sh#t bag is just strategizing like a guy selling redbull events at a car show... Makes my job hard.
Dec 4, 2018 - 07:52pm PT
then (more disbelief or brainwash victim?)
Then supply the list. Those are big claims so show the research.
I'm not doubting it mind, guys like H W fronted huge and complex operations like we don't see anymore, but rather than shout cliches post details of the accusations and investigations. There's process to that sh#t you know. Reference it or do as trump does and think saying big words circumvents showing evidence.
I added these & quoted thus, so as to be able to continue this valuable
discussion of the death & good riddance of the 1st Shah of the once/United States of America, now the land of the disjointed pack of thieves & the disenfranchised poor
ecdh,
have your pick then hit the keyboard your own self.
That's some title you take for your self?
What do you do? & for whom?
If you are what you claim then get on the stick, it is important that such important members of the ruling class understand the evil that was wrought by those that were the largest crocodiles in the huge swamp that has become our worlds "New World Order", which we were then & are now still, being dragged along by and folded into.
From the end of WWII on through the experimentation with all kinds of subversion/chemical warfare. To Duba-u's "finishing" the job Dad left, Jr's clean up. Stacking pallets full of cash and then claiming it was sent to the front to win hearts & minds when in the scrutinization of where the cash went, found no such deployments of cash to the war zone, where it 'all' went is still "unknown"
Anyway, I was reading along as it all went down, it was the times of my life I read all I could on the corruption that was keeping me safe & free...
and understood from a personal view, that the powerful stay in power by any & all means available, always have & always will.
you elect a buffoon, criminal, wannabe tyrant, giving it the power
It will use the things at its disposal to dispossess all.
here is a good place to start
http://dunwalke.com/1_Brady_Bush_Bechtel.htm
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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"...masters of the social arts working all manner of rooms, contexts, and groups."
"Masters of war" at the trough..."Working the room," it's called.
Good job, Gnome...
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Werner,
I'm dying to know how you make Bush a JFK conspirator.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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In spirit.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Noah Cross:
'Course I'm respectable. I'm old. Politicians, public buildings, and whores all get respectable if they last long enough.
John Huston in Chinatown
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Scole
Trad climber
Zapopan
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Ezra
"Bush was Vice President during Iran contra,
He was CIA director from January 76 to January 77.
I had to look it up myself."
I'm the stupid American. Must have smoked too much of the weed the CIA smuggled into the US while Bush was working with what became the Sinaloa Cartel and selling guns to the Contras. Iran only became involved later, while Bush was VP.
Regardless of the exact dates: Bush's hands were covered in blood.
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Quasimodo
Trad climber
CA
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George H Bush's Legacy in Iraqi:
International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War
http://ippnw.org/pdf/gulfwarfacts.pdf
1991 Gulf War
More than 80,000 tons of explosives dropped by coalition forces led by the US killed between 50,000 and 100,000 Iraqi soldiers.
Between 2,500 and 3,500 innocent civilians were killed during the air campaign, and 9,000 homes were destroyed.
The civilian death toll in 1991 — after the massive bombing campaign was stopped — rose to 111,000 people. Shortages of medicine and damaged health facilities contributed to this high rate of “delayed mortality.”
Of these 111,000 deaths, 70,000 were children under 15 years of age. These deaths were caused by health effects resulting from the destruction of Iraq's civilian infrastructure, especially electricity-generating power plants, which led to a breakdown in water purification and sanitation. This breakdown caused outbreaks of infectious diseases such as cholera, typhoid, malaria, polio, and hepatitis.
UNICEF has documented that the combined effects of the Gulf War and over a decade of economic sanctions have resulted in the deaths of 500,000 children due to malnutrition, diarrhea, and other preventable diseases.
Landmines, unexploded ordnance, and anti-personnel bombs have added thousands of victims to the numbers of physically handicapped children in Iraq, especially amputees. These injuries not only effect the physical and emotional development of the child but also diminish the prospects of work, marriage, social life, self-support, and dignity for the adult.
The psychological impact of the war has had damaging and lasting effect on many of Iraq’s 8 million children. They have little hope for the future and are anxious, fearful, and uncertain.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Quasimodo, yes yes, all that stuff is trivial
compared to the personal courage that HW Bush demonstrated
when he campaigned against the 1965 Civil Rights Act
because he reasoned, wrong, that it only benefited some 14% of the population (blacks) and was just another big government program
when he vetoed the 1990 Civil Rights Act that cleaned up employment discrimination
so today we eulogize a real American, and a strong thinking Republican
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/12/03/george-h-w-bush-race-civil-rights-war-drugs/2197675002/
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Oswald and Bush had coctails but that was coincidental.
And the Nixon obstruction favor thing while Bush was head of the RNC. No big deal.
It gets trickier with the covert support to Saddam for 10 years leading up to Iraq 1 and perpetusl war for oil.
And the Iran Contra Panama stuff was probably just the cost of doing business.
I guess i'm just confused about things
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ecdh
climber
the east
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Gnome, re read my first line - good. Bad. Both.
I have no feelings either way on the guy, I do tho think he had an impressive career, holding a greater spectrum of roles than any president since, in descending order. Like all presidents tho more roles means more blood on his hands. I don't weep for the guy, no love in here. But I don't just vacuously right him off as as a cliche either.
My job; I contribute to all sorts of groups where my specialty is in demand. Anything that pays bills basically, sometimes big orgs like govts and the UN, sometimes NGOs, sometimes businesses. Basically I try to navigate the changes in a particular region, one where H W had an significant impact. He was also leader when I was at uni so maybe I am brainwashed a bit. If all you have is a hammer etc.
As its not a work forum and I have no interest in who the f*#k you are or what the f*#k you do, that's all I will say about how I make a living.
So yeah, I hear all the allegations of all sorts of leaders. All I want is to hear more than 'killer' and 'war criminal' exposed shallowly in a post. Of course I can look it up, but I'm old fashioned in thinking those with the claim need to provide the evidence. Its their argument after all. Sorry but isolated wikipedia links are just lazy - use your own words to show the working. Accuse for sure, just describe his role in the matter and how it implicates him.
Not too much to ask if you want to be taken seriously.
In summary; I don't give two f*#ks about H W other than as the last leader who had done enough with his life to play the big game. That makes him interesting to me. To this day the effects of his presidency and career are felt, both good, bad and just is.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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ecdh Sir,
I was careful, I left out that wishy-washy 1st line, which can be said of any & all, but this current one.
as to my interest in what you do? It was beyond merely being polite.
I am sincere
(only to be taken half seriously as I sit on my ass and count chickens all day.)
At night after, peddling home, I use all that battery power that I generated on the bike battery to fire up this Mac. So as to be sure to catch the slings & arrows, not to fight though.
I see your points and mostly agree, The link I provided draws the dots together very clearly.
I'm gonna move on.
Quasi
the one thing I would add is the "Hot Metal" that was used.
Munitions made with Depleted uranium, so radioactive while individually in small amounts the cumulative effects of all that was used has had disastrous results. Sorry as has been pointed out I am far too lazy to spell it all out
google it
ecdh
thnx, and maybe you read me as monolithic in my leanings. I am very aware of the well meaning actions, the planning, and skills of- the real accomplishments that right or wrong - bad or good were the legacy of '41'
I waited, I do not want to enter into a political debate.
A good man should be left to be mourned after by those who do.
Not to speak ill of the dead is old school but I try to adhere to that.
That there was some debate as to which was more a legacy, the wrong or the right, I think, given what & where we have fallen can be tied to the repukelican party on-mass.
I know that it will never be told, but grandpappy Prescott Bush was a real swastika lover. A forgiver of genocide, it was just gays & Jews, mostly; so just doing the lords work after all.
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