Consciousness and Levels of Awareness

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TomCochrane

Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 2, 2018 - 07:26pm PT
Are you equating this with "levels of awareness" alpha, delta, etc,?

Yes

One of the four worlds of spirit is the world of spirits?

Yes, but not yet to the point of explaining that




Spherical Harmonics Reveal Standing EEG Waves and Long-Range Neural Synchronization during Non-REM Sleep

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4916209/

I haven't looked at this in about 40 years, but I would bet there has been no progress, just like machine language "understanding".

interesting article

what the article doesn't tell you is that once you record a thought wave form, you can use it to broadcast that thought form to the general public as a form of mind control

modern technology won't catch up with ancient knowledge so long as everything is being analyzed backwards ... still the analysis attempts are fascinating ...

Machine language understanding is intriguing ... I used to work with Jaime Carbonell

machines can capture and record about any sort of thought form and can manipulate them in various ways ... but machines are not capable of creative thought ... that takes a viewpoint of consciousness ... that's why the Borg are trying to entrap us in transhumanism ... we don't need that because we can do it all within our natural abilities when not being scrambled and suppressed ... but the Borg needs us entrapped and are desperate to wrap us up in transhumanism before we figure out our native capabilities ....
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Feb 2, 2018 - 07:57pm PT
Hmmm, zbrown's comment brings me to the thought that what was once measured and described as alpha, theta, etc. is just a simple way of describing something that is more complex and perhaps more measurable than when that info became hip.

There is always the many ways we can describe things and then, what is really going on.

One can, to the the degree they are capable, experience what is really going on.

How that is described is where we get lost.

the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Feb 2, 2018 - 08:26pm PT
I think it's less likely that consciousness has created reality vs. reality is like Schrödinger's cat where from all the possible universes (different physics, passage of time, etc) consciousness has allowed this particular universe with this expression of time to coalesce into what we perceive.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Feb 3, 2018 - 06:49am PT
Yes, reality is all interconnected as quantum thought wave forms.

No, the brain does not create consciousness....LOL! That's about like a scientist declaring that the automobile creates the driver!

Consciousness creates the mind/brain/body/world as imagery in the mind, and reality only exists as such in the mind.



Didn't say the brain "creates" mind or consciousness etc. Anytime you talk in causal terms you are almost certainly out of the mind/consciousness/awareness loop and back to physicalism. That's what makes this a tricky study.

The inverse of the brain creating consciousness is that consciousness creates the brain. You're till hacking around with causation, which is mostly a search for fundamental or first "efficient" causes.

Go to awareness itself, generally referred to as unborn and uncaused, whereas content is clearly generated by the brain. When content meets awareness we have consciousness. Ours is more nuanced than a dog's because our brains are capable of generating more nuanced content.

I'll try and comment on brain waves later.I spent a bunch of years with neurofeedback and cocking around with EEGs and qEEGs. More interesting than bandwidth is coherence, amplitude, etc. Frequencies don't denote levels of awareness, rather the general nature of content. For example, Alpha is usually chill. High Beta is buckled down thinking. Awareness is the same phenomenon throughout. But the content changes as you surf the bandwidths.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 3, 2018 - 09:06am PT
Agreed, John!
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Feb 3, 2018 - 09:14am PT
That much said, I am quite sure I don't know any thing for certain about any of this. The most I hope for is a model that makes the best sense based on my experience and noodling the empirical evidence.

Thing is, consciousness is a rabbit hole, or a circus mirror, and it seems the deeper we look into it, the less it conforms to a classical model.

But I could easily be wrong about all of it.

d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Feb 3, 2018 - 10:08am PT
http://www.nonduality.com/asmi5.htm

One can only respond to experience depending upon ones concious level.

I alone am.
reallyy big star

Social climber
some, place
Feb 3, 2018 - 10:19am PT
ok.
put a nickel in my can...

your attempt to quantify and corral
the mystery kills the wind that fill
your soul's sail.

this shite is mysterious on purpose.
by design. if we could put it all into an equation,
then we'd smile for a moment or two and
then drink ourselves into oblivion.

don't be conscious.
don't be aware.

i encourage kindness.
and courage.

export those two values unto the greater world
and you'll still understand naught, but stillness
will saddle you.

that's the greatest compliment, here upon this ball of dirt.
when stillness chooses you as a companion.

then you're married. and really f*#king wise.
because stillness does not choose dumb cnunts for mates.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Feb 3, 2018 - 10:35am PT
OP wrote-
On several occasions I have politely tried to steer discussions in the direction of accepting that there is in fact the presence and existence of consciousness and awareness, so perhaps we could discuss an existing observable truth about which much can be learned beyond speculation as to how it can even be present. Such discussions so far have invariably been driven straight off the rails by collapsing back into discussions about how consciousness is created from the material universe. So long as that fixed opinion is held, there is little further exploration of awareness.
Perhaps the discussion of consciousness, being derived from the material universe, is driven off the rails by self absorbed tripping.

I find it hard to delineate the emergence of consciousness from our physical evolution when artifacts, paintings, and social advancements of our ancestors shows that they, species by species and generation by generation, grappled with with these same questions of awareness in incremental complexity. Nonetheless, we are where we are and I enjoy discussions solely devoted to consciousness. Sorry to interrupt...
zBrown

Ice climber
Feb 3, 2018 - 04:33pm PT
Op. Cit.

Let me be the first to say that the paper is actually quite interesting and some nouveau relationships are being established.

Reviews much of the literature (2016) and has the ton of references required of academics.


We conclude that spherical harmonics are a hallmark of spontaneous, large-scale synchronization of neural activity in the brain, which are associated with unconscious, light sleep. The analogy with spherical harmonics in quantum mechanics suggests that the variances (eigenvalues) of the principal components follow a Boltzmann distribution, or equivalently, that standing waves are in a sort of “thermodynamic” equilibrium during non-REM sleep. By extension, we speculate that consciousness emerges as the brain dynamics deviate from such equilibrium.

other tidbits

More generally, it is well-known from geophysics and climate research that the principal components of spatiotemporal patterns of physical parameters, such as surface sea-water temperature or air pressure, represent stationary (i.e., non-propagating) oscillations, also known as standing waves (Storch and Zwiers, 2001). Standing waves are spatially constrained oscillations where each point over the spatial domain is associated with a constant maximum amplitude over time, giving rise to nodes where the amplitude is consistently zero. On a spherical domain, standing waves appear as spherical harmonics with multiple poles where the amplitude of the wave is maximized. By definition, the principal components identify spatial locations with a coherent fluctuating pattern, a property that can be used to detect stationary climate oscillations such as El Niño or the North Atlantic Oscillation (Storch and Zwiers, 2001).

In neuroscience, the existence of standing EEG waves was already predicted by early neural mass models of brain activity (Nunez, 1981), which have been expanded and refined ever since (Nunez, 1998; Nunez and Srinivasan, 2006a,b). Those models also predict that, since the human head conforms to a sphere, EEG signals can be mathematically expanded into a basis of spherical harmonics (Wingeier et al., 2001). However, to the best of our knowledge, no empirical evidence for physical waves in the form of multipolar spherical harmonics has been provided to date.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 3, 2018 - 09:45pm PT
Didn't say the brain "creates" mind or consciousness etc. Anytime you talk in causal terms you are almost certainly out of the mind/consciousness/awareness loop and back to physicalism. That's what makes this a tricky study.

John goes right to the heart of the challenge here. How do you talk about the nature of the world of the spirit in a culture that officially, scientifically and academically doesn't believe there is such a thing except as outgrown and dis-proven mythology?

Whether I or anyone else on this thread believes in the world of the spirit, that is still really the subject of this thread. There are several dimensions to the challenge:

1. Many people have been raised from childhood and for their entire adulthood to disbelieve in any such thing.

2. Our language contains very few terms that can be used to discuss the subject, and most of those terms are pejorative and hardly useful for discussing a complex domain.

3. If you try to describe the world of the spirit using familiar terms, you are using the same terms as are used to describe the material universe, and so immediately introducing a source of confusion and potential misunderstanding.

4. There are many cultures around the world where the belief structures and language are designed to eloquently describe the world of the spirit, but their language does not translate well into English and sounds weird when people try to use our language to describe their concepts of understanding.

5. Those spiritually oriented cultures have for centuries been targeted by proselytising western culture priests.

6. When the priests don't succeed in converting the native peoples to western views of reality, then they are targeted for genocide by the western militaries.

7. The western materialsitic culture is very conveniently set up to allow control of populations ... so anyone who starts thinking outside the Matrix is heavily discouraged.

8. Even when evidence is discovered, as in quantum physics, then scientists go through conniption fits (i.e. Big Bang, Black Holes, String Theory, Multiverses, Dark Energy, Dark Matter) trying to develop alternative explanations in line with materialistic perspectives.
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Feb 4, 2018 - 09:05am PT
Do you want to talk about spirit or why "we" have such a hard time talking about spirit?
i-b-goB

Social climber
Wise Acres
Feb 4, 2018 - 10:32am PT

The gift of consciousness & awareness connects us to everything, to ourselves, others, what we are doing, feelings, love, life, and all that is!






TomCochrane

Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 4, 2018 - 05:33pm PT
It is interesting that in this age of internet communications and ease of publishing and communicating, how many spiritual teachers have gained large audiences interested in learning and expanding their personal levels of awareness. Eckhart Tolle is certainly one of these teachers and a major influence in the lives of many people. My library includes his book 'The Power of Now'.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 4, 2018 - 06:22pm PT
There have been several questions about these observed levels of awareness, so I'd like to come back to these.

Note that some of the primitive peoples consider the world of the spirit to be the real world where they spend much of their time and where the important things in life happen ... and what we call 'the real world' ... they call a' waking dream' or sometimes 'dream time'.

[Note that one of the first things you discover upon studying the knowledge, skills, and abilities of primitive peoples, is that primitive does not mean inferior, retarded or foolish. We are so enamoured with our science and technology as to not realize that these are unnecessary crutches which have actually hobbled and degraded our natural abilities. The why on this is an entire another subject from this thread.]

So I'll go back to the layers referenced earlier as identified by science and expand upon them a little bit using knowledge from some of the primitive peoples.

One way to think of these veils or layers of bands of energy by analogy is as the layers of an onion, with the ego in the center and with expanded states of awareness reaching outwards through the layers of the onion. Note that the people perceiving these veils or bands of spiritual energy are able to exhibit extraordinary body and mental control.

[Although this can be one convenient way of thinking about it, note that it is really not appropriate or a definitive model of the world of the spirit, if only because the increases in awareness could just as well or preferably be modeled by layers looking inwards from the ego. We are not talking here about our somewhat familiar world of Einsteinium space-time and our language is not well adapted for talking about these domains.]


Beta 14-30 Hz normal alert consciousness
The Ego, I, the logical mind, the world of the flesh

Alpha 9-13 Hz relaxed, calm, not thinking
This Alpha band is subdivided in two:
Alpha A is the World of the Subconscious (note this doesn't mean unconscious ...) the world of all memory, emotions, feelings, body control, healing, Inner Vision ... eight veils
Alpha B is the World of the Life Force that moves in all things
i.e. "My the Force be with you" ... eight veils

Theta 4-8 Hz deep relaxation, meditating, imagery
The World of the Spirit .... 16 veils

Delta 1-3 Hz deep, dreamless sleep
Oneness, The Void, superconsciousness, The Sacred Silence, consciousness of all things ... 4 veils

Inner Vision is the communicator ... "the voice of the creator" ... you can get to complete memory through Inner Vision
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 4, 2018 - 07:07pm PT
The Proceedings of the IEEE Vol 70, No 2 February 1982 published an interesting paper by Robert G Jahn, the Dean of the School of Engineering and Applied Science of Princeton University; "The Persistent Paradox of Psychic Phenomena: An Engineering Perspective.

I have noticed that most scientific investigations into the realm of spiritual awareness do not in fact explore the worlds of the spirit. Instead such studies restrict themselves to examining the finger prints and foot prints left behind by the spirit world that are visible within the material universe.

The paper mentioned above notes the following Categories of Psychic Phenomena:

I. Extrasensory Perception (ESP)
A. Telepathy
B. Clairvoyance
C. Precognition/Retrocognition
II. Psychokinesis (PK)
A. Physical Systems
B. Biological Systems
III. Survival
A. Reincarnation
B. Apparitions
C. Mediumship
IV. Out-of-Body Experiences (OBE)


Studies in these areas are particularly frustrating to research scientists, as science is restricted to searching out universal laws exhibited in provable repetitive experiments. The creative and imaginative world of the spirit holds to no such 'laws of nature' and frustrates any such attempt at determining predictive behavior. Serious scientific investigations are able to identify specific irrefutable instances of paranormal activity. But predictable repetitiveness is not attainable. This is particularly frustrating as intentional conscious attempts by capable people to demonstrate their capabilities tend to not work. Producing effects within the material world tend to work when real life events are driven by Inner Vision ... not just for learning or demonstrating ego capabilities.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 4, 2018 - 08:50pm PT
© 2010 State University of New York Press, Albany
Common Themes in American Indian Philosophy

... one of its consequences important to this volume is that speakers of radically different languages—using radically different systems of identification, categorization, and ordering—will conceive of the world in radically different ways. Different words make different worlds. So, any translation of an American Indian language into a Western language, no matter how carefully or neutrally crafted, will recast Native thought into the conceptual categories—hence, the ontology—of the Western language. Indeed, I argue later that much of our talk about “spirits” in the Native world version makes this very mistake, giving American Indian beliefs an unwarranted air of mysticism in Western popular culture—and in the academy—because of the supernatural connotations of the Western category spirit.... After several years of reflection, I have come to believe that native Shawnee speakers specifically, and the old Indians in general, lived in a radically different world than ours

http://sunypress.edu/pdf/62007.pdf

Donald Fixico (2003), an American Indian history professor, anticipates two of our four common themes in American Indian philosophy, relatedness and circularity as world-ordering principles, when he observes that: “Indian Thinking” is “seeing” things from a perspective emphasizing that circles and cycles are central to the world and that all things are related within the universe. . . . “Seeing” is visualizing the connection between two or more entities or beings, and trying to understand the relationship between them.

There is another very curious and interesting fact in Indian philosophy. They do not separate man from the beast by any broad line of demarcation. Mankind is supposed simply to be one of the many races of animals; in some respects superior, in many others inferior, to those races. So the Indian speaks of “our race” as of the same rank with the bear race, the wolf race or the rattlesnake race.

I conclude that an American Indian world is, indeed, numbered among the internally consistent, equally privileged, well-made actual worlds and so it is worthy of philosophical treatment—and respect—from the Western perspective.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 4, 2018 - 09:35pm PT


TomCochrane

Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 4, 2018 - 09:59pm PT
yeah, big cats are fast and strong ... i used to wrestle with my adult pet cougar and i've been involved with a lot of big cats, including a big wild cougar that comes around my house here ... their job is to tend the deer herd ... they do need to eat, just like you do ... lots easier to make friends when well fed ... are you a carnivore? ... are you hungry? ... how close is your relationship to your latest prey?

Nearly all the tribes in the Congo Basin either are or have been cannibals; and among some of them the practice is on the increase. Races who until lately do not seem to have been cannibals, though situated in a country surrounded by cannibal races, have, from increased intercourse with their neighbours, learned to eat human flesh.

this subject is actually relevant to this thread, but i wasn't going to go there ... so how about we leave it alone at that ...
WBraun

climber
Feb 4, 2018 - 09:59pm PT
Brennan, you are an animal because your consciousness is material and animalistic.

A human beings consciousness is above the animalistic stage,

Brennan will devolve back into animal in next life.

Many so-called humans are actually still polished animals and haven't yet risen above the animal consciousness so in reality they are NOT human beings yet .....
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