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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 27, 2017 - 09:31am PT
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^^^
Andrew Bisharat. I like his stuff. Good post!
Grieving is for the living. I've always felt that funerals and postmortems are only something we do to comfort those around us who remain. Nothing wrong with that; but what we are really doing is honoring the living, more so than the dead. I see that it's best to honor someone while they're still alive, when they can appreciate it. After that, it's only about those who remain.
Something Pam said reminded me that the emotions of pain and loss and joy often intermingle and even exchange places. A deep feeling of pain and loss can, somewhat counterintuitively feel very similar to intense gratitude and love. Tears of loss and tears of appreciation, sometimes they are hardly any different, and probably come from the same place deep within, where we harbor our most important connections to those with whom we have shared our lives, no?
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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Oct 27, 2017 - 09:34am PT
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The only grief is NOT CLIMBING AND LIVING Period!
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dirt claud
Social climber
san diego,ca
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Oct 27, 2017 - 09:36am PT
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Who the hell said bird watching isn't dangerous Reilly ;)
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cat t.
climber
california
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Oct 27, 2017 - 02:38pm PT
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I think the way we experience grief is different with each loss. Anytime someone dies there is the pain of a severed connection and the regret of missed opportunity, but the manner of death adds strange layers to those feelings. I've lost friends and family to suicide and overdoses (as well as climbing), and it's sort of inevitable that those sorts of deaths bring up a whole host of philosophical/existential questions that get tangled up and interwoven with the more visceral feeling of grief/loss.
With climbing/biking/skiing/BASE/surfing/etc deaths, there's a similar additional layer: in addition to losing your friend, your relationship to climbing/biking/skiing/etc suddenly becomes infinitely more complicated. It can feel almost like a loss of spirituality. Instead of feeling like an escape, it's a reminder of this person you lost. Instead of making you feel more alive, it makes you acutely aware of your own mortality. I don't think those feelings are bad, or that they necessarily steal away the joy of the activity--I think they just change it. For me, the innocent, pure enthusiasm has morphed into a softer, more measured appreciation, with heartbreak and happiness muddled together...and that's okay. I like what Roy said here, and think it captures that idea well:
Something Pam said reminded me that the emotions of pain and loss and joy often intermingle and even exchange places. A deep feeling of pain and loss can, somewhat counterintuitively feel very similar to intense gratitude and love. Tears of loss and tears of appreciation, sometimes they are hardly any different, and probably come from the same place deep within, where we harbor our most important connections to those with whom we have shared our lives, no?
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 27, 2017 - 07:50pm PT
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Thanks, Jim.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Well said, cat t. I think that's a big part of it for me.
BAd
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couchmaster
climber
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Wen said, quote: "I’ve often lived in fear of raising children who climb."
Yup. BUT, when my boy started to climb, after he had moved away, I kicked myself for not training him in it. I worried incessantly. He was often climbing in a fairly remote area (for the lower 48). One time he got benighted with 3 other climbers, was grateful that his dad had first bought him a zippered chalkbag AND stuffed a bunch of crap in the zippered pocket (knife, TP, tiny lighter etc) but most importantly a BD Ion headlamp - which turned out to be the only light they had in navigating a potentially fatal steep cliff downclimb. It evidently took them hours to get back to the car, but they did get there. Lesson learned.
Anyway, to my point. One day he's decided to brave the long drive in his car that doesn't have a working airbag and come home to visit. He's on the freeway, in the steep blind corners near Deadmans Pass (Folks believed to be the very first white people to hit it unexpectedly found a dead man there). Some drunk, speeding, weaving and driving against traffic the wrong way zipped past him so fast that he barely saw the car. Thank the dear lord the drunk was in the right lane and kid was in the left. Kid pulled over and called state patrol who by coincidence had a car in the area that zoomed right out. Not before the drunk head on'd the car right behind my kid who happened to be in the left lane and immediately killed the driver and himself. My son was so close to death he could have smelled it. We don't know how close we all are to death. When it comes, it comes.
We see the sad stories like the recent Hayden and Inga one. Yeah, that's a terrible thing and my heart breaks for their loved ones, no question. But I don't think climbers are the only ones who have this grief thing going on. It's pretty much part of the human condition I believe. As a collective, we are all but a few short min. away from total annihilation. I think on that a lot- more likely to be reflecting as I am driving out of town, and how I might game it, but in the end there's not a damned thing I'll do but vaporize along with millions of others if my town gets nuked.
My best to all: (thank you especially Pam, well spoken)
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
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Yesterday...
I sometimes wonder if it's a good idea to take my kids climbing, though I do take them.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Nov 20, 2017 - 05:27pm PT
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hey there say, all... a friend just shared this... and, i had never heard it before, ... but-- it reminded me of hayden and his beloved inge...
i got to thinking of it... and, it seemed good to post this here,
too...
very sad, but-- cherish that they loved each other and had
built a life, here, WHILE they could...
and that is something to always be thankful for...
a REAL and GOOD love, is hard to find
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Nov 20, 2017 - 05:31pm PT
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hey there say, couchmaster...
oh my, as to your post about your son... :O
thank god, oh my...
and as to this quote:
But I don't think climbers are the only ones who have this grief thing going on. It's pretty much part of the human condition I believe
yes, it is... and, you know, i think, too, that different groups,
do mourn in different ways, yet = it equals, the same:
we are human and we understand loss...
:(
the best that we can always do, which i tried to let my kids know,
when they lost their dad, to death, is:
to GROW with WHAT THEY HAVE TAUGHT us... and that does honor the
fact that THEY (the lost loved ones) have BEEN HERE and done
something in our lives that NO ONE ELSE could have done...
and thus, we love them for it,
we share it...
and we make it grow, as, there are not here anymore to do so...
it can STILL make the world a better place, at least in our corner,
and-- you never know:
it may outreach even farther...
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Ezra Ellis
Trad climber
North wet, and Da souf
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Nov 23, 2017 - 04:02pm PT
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Bump for Velvet!
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