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jstan
climber
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Jun 27, 2017 - 09:57pm PT
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T: I've had to haul a couple mattresses and other assorted junk low life's illegally dump on our road in the country, pisses me off each time and I end up paying the dump fee. :(
I have found controlling one's self is crucial. If you let others upset you, you lose sight of what you are trying to do. As I was cleaning up along 62 in YV once, a car slowed in front of me, the passenger window opened and two water bottles flew out. My immediate thought was how fortunate I was. I would not have to drive all over hell's half acre to find those bottles. It was clear the driver had been affected.
The fact someone is seen removing litter has an effect. A road being clean has an effect. When a dumper gets into a situation where they might be confronted they prepare emotionally. They prepare for the confrontation. Don't confront. That just convinces them they are right to litter. Just keeping going leaves them dealing with the probability of going through bad situations in the future. Preparing for confrontation is not fun. With only a few exceptions true dumps we have cleaned up, stay clean. Trash draws trash. Don't dump signs just identifies places where others have dumped.
Signs:
Robert, Phil, and I put a sign up giving the rules for using the Pit. It is turned so you have to go over if you want to read it. Seemed to me signs have to be read only once. Actually according to the code such a sign shows the owner is aware of the use being given the land. Under certain situations it can prevent a user's claiming they have a legal (squatter's) right to use the land. Believe me. You don't want to have to hire a lawyer.
R: I found that security sign in YV. Thought I would try using it. People in the neighborhood are using the Pit as a dump. One neighbor drove in as I was working on the Bark Beetle tree. Turned around and left. I saw the house he went to. He knew I saw the house he went to. I once followed a truck drawing a trailer load of cuttings into the Highlands. When he turned around and left I turned around and kept following. Probably the person who dumped some roofing on Section 11 a few months ago.
Please don't dump nails at the entrance of the Pit. When I get a flat I'll know who to talk to.
And please don't burn anything. In an earlier post I explained that the last time someone burned dumped wood in the Pit it doubled the amount of work I had to do.
On blocking the access road:
I would advise you not to do that. It may be an easement. Can get really nasty if an access has been in continual use for five years. You can get into trouble blocking an easement. Possibly it is even a prescriptive easement. The eastern road is being blocked by erosion. Nature's doing that. Perfect.
Thanks in advance for taking the rest of the wood. You and Locker might consider joining us tomorrow or thursday. I'll take the kindling to Landers tomorrow. Not much and not worth risking my trees.
Other situations:
Once I was cleaning up two sofas and two mattresses just east of the Post Office and this woman came close but walked by, saying nothing. I was destroying her home. Took the mattresses out of my truck and put her clothes in a clean bag. I had broken up the sofas. Could not put those back. Went back months later after the area had flooded. No sign of a resident.
Still have not been able to forget this.
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drF
Trad climber
usa
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Jun 27, 2017 - 10:06pm PT
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I've got my load continuing to dry
This is normal for a man of your advanced age ;-)
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jun 28, 2017 - 07:38am PT
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When a dumper gets into a situation where they might be confronted they prepare emotionally. They prepare for the confrontation. Don't confront. That just convinces them they are right to litter.
I confronted a guy in a parking lot last weekend. He tossed an oil container he had just poured into his car. I told him "That is not where that goes" his response was "It is empty". I just shook my head and muttered something about being lazy. When I got finished shopping and was walking back across the parking lot the guy drove up to me, I was thinking the guy was going to get in my face. Instead he rolled the window down and said he had thrown the bottle in the trash. I thanked him. I would agree that not all litter confrontations go so smoothly, but I will continue to do it.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Jun 28, 2017 - 02:08pm PT
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"It may be an easement. Can get really nasty if an access has been in continual use for five years. You can get into trouble blocking an easement"
Thanks for all your work!
however Why would you think there is an easement?
By not blocking access, by this reasoning, maybe it could create an easement?
All across the world, and managers block access to prevent unwanted use.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jun 28, 2017 - 02:17pm PT
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There's no adverse possession if people were given permission to camp there.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jun 28, 2017 - 02:48pm PT
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that is why property owners put up signs saying "Right to pass by permission of owner"
in California the sign is not required to avoid creation of an easement, but posting it is advisable. The courts really disfavor adverse possession as an outdated concept.
http://codes.findlaw.com/ca/civil-code/civ-sect-1008.html
No use by any person or persons, no matter how long continued, of any land, shall ever ripen into an easement by prescription, if the owner of such property posts at each entrance to the property or at intervals of not more than 200 feet along the boundary a sign reading substantially as follows: “Right to pass by permission, and subject to control, of owner: Section 1008, Civil Code.”
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jun 28, 2017 - 02:54pm PT
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There's no adverse possession if people were given permission to camp there.
Maybe. How would you prove the people were given permission, instead of just camping there without permission.
Did all (or any, or most) of the people camping there acknowledge they were doing so with permission? Either in writing or even orally? Was it obvious they were there with permission, or was there anything that may have objectively showed anything about it one way or the other?
What I'm getting at, if it isn't obvious, is that a land owner can't defeat a claim of adverse possession by simply stating that the putative adverse possessors actually had permission. If it were that easy, no one would ever win an adverse possession claim, unless there was somthing like a long pitched battle between the land owner and adverse possessor. I don't think the pitched battle scenario happens very often.
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zip
Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
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Jun 28, 2017 - 05:42pm PT
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So the pit is closed now?
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Jun 28, 2017 - 05:58pm PT
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^^^yes. But I'm opening the New Pit! But it's more like, The Bump ✊
Pm me for directions. Camping, showers, fires, slacklines, boulee ball, golf, frisbee golf, target practice, good food shared, laughs,,, ALL CONDONED!!!!
pooper even!!!!!
Nice post jstan
Still have not been able to forget this.
Me eyether. I've come over 15-20 homeless camps in just the past 2yrs walking around town👀
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jun 28, 2017 - 09:10pm PT
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Maybe. How would you prove the people were given permission, instead of just camping there without permission.
It was advertised on the Internets.
Adverse possession also has to be open and notorious. Mostly you just need to pay attention to where your neighbor builds his fence.
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jstan
climber
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Sep 13, 2017 - 10:43am PT
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Russ
Locker
A new contribution of slash has been left at the Pit. Not bad. If you want to pull out the one to two inch branches you can use and take them away it would be a big help. Off hand I don't see any diseased Pine in this lot. Right now I have an overhead of tires, sofas and mattresses I am working off in other places, so it will be awhile before I take my chipper shredder down to the Pit. Appreciate the help.
PS:
The BLM and MDLT held a very successful clean up at Giant Rock on 9/9. Huge roll off load of trash removed. I concentrated on broken beer bottles and bum wipes right near the Rock.
PPS:
If any of you in JT has a road legal single axle trash trailer with a 24"x6' open box they want to sell, let me know. I need to up my game to three or four mattresses at a crack.
John
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Deb Battista
Trad climber
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Sep 16, 2017 - 08:28am PT
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Hello John. First, thank you for inspiring so many climbers and rangers to have ethics when it comes to climbing, leading by example, and loving the land.
Would you be interested in talking with me about your experiences with Rich Romano? I'm a rock climber, hiker and outdoor enthusiast who is considering writing a paper about Rich and you were a huge inspiration for Rich and I'd like to hear, first hand, your stories/thoughts.
Let me know.
All the best,
Deb
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