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Tom Patterson
Trad climber
Seattle
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Nov 12, 2016 - 06:36pm PT
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Mark Force - great OP on your part, and great follow-up posts. The problem is this: you are speaking rationality to emotional reactivity. Never the twain shall meet.
I like your commitments to your local scene, and that's what my wife and I are committing ourselves to at a higher level, as well.
Keep up the great work, and the kind and graceful way of communicating your concerns!
Cheers,
Tom
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Nov 12, 2016 - 06:46pm PT
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Any man that talks about woman the way he does is a POS. I despise trump with a passion I rarely feel and am amazed that any man with daughters could vote for him.
exactly. but somehow religious people were able to overlook that because "hillary should be in jail", despite the fact that the best the repugs could do was smear her. took the FBI directors last gasp to bury her.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 12, 2016 - 06:52pm PT
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Wilber, Tom, and the rest of the crew around here - thanks for the kind words, ideas, and even criticism.
Tom, I agree with you that we need to think be active at the community level.
We need to bring people back to somewhere around the center. I have the impression that we are purposefully manipulated to be polarized because it makes us a useful commodity.
Crazy left or crazy right is still crazy. Civically minded centrists, whether they lean a little right or left (or libertarian) can still come together, find a compromise, get useful things done, shake hands, and share cheeseburgers and beer at the end of the day.
I hope to see more of that in our future. It's not important that one person or one side wins - it's better for everyone to win and important that our American experiment thrives and evolves toward greater liberty for all.
Semms like I read that somewhere - "We hold these truths to be sacred & undeniable; that all men are created equal & independent, that from that equal creation they derive rights inherent & inalienable, among which are the preservation of life, & liberty, & the pursuit of happiness..."
Liberte', Egalite', Fraternite'
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Nov 12, 2016 - 07:01pm PT
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No worries Mark ,just wanted you to know,we have your back.
Things will be alright,or ,they will not,Live.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 12, 2016 - 08:46pm PT
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Cosmic, your post is an attempt at diversion from the issue at hand - Trump's character.
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rwedgee
Ice climber
CA
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Nov 12, 2016 - 11:14pm PT
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Hey Liberal ....how's about choke on a dick
You voted for this,....easy....gaggg...swallow....mmmm
It's YOUR platform. Embrace the warmth, gulp
Protest, burn some cars, have a sit in or 2, poop your pants, don't show up for finals ....differ
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 13, 2016 - 07:48am PT
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rwedgee, You make assumptions. I'm more of a centrist libertarian and this election I voted for Republican, Democratic, and Libertarian candidates depending on the position and the individual.
You don't really have anything to contribute do you. Your aim is to be insulting and see if you can rile somebody up. Not very constructive. Grow up.
You help reinforce my point made previously that crazy left or crazy right is still just plain crazy.
Here are is my position on recent rioting rather than peaceful demonstration that was posted earlier in this thread -
"Violence is not civil disobedience - it is a crime, no matter who does it. Violation of person or property violates our foundational principles. This is true whether it is people protesting Trumps’ election turning into a mob or people who supported Trump feeling emboldened to act violently to those who did not."
I would wager that you haven't actually read The Declaration of Independence, The Bill of Rights, or The Constitution. Do you know what the First Amendment says? Consider that the Founders made this content the first amendment.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
My respect for the document and our Founders means I respect and will defend your right to be a disrespectful and uncivil dumbass. But, I also won't invite you over for my BBQs and beer. You're a boor.
PH, Note that I deleted that post almost immediately afterward - I'm surprised you even saw it - because of being off topic. I sent a PM answer to your question. Deleting your post referring to that deleted content will be appreciated.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Nov 13, 2016 - 07:57am PT
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You're a good man, Mark.
Good OP but don't expect the deplorables to ever really consider the orange turds disgusting character. It would be for them like looking in a mirror.
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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Nov 13, 2016 - 09:29am PT
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Reason is the only glue that keeps the moon sized sword of Damocles from erasing human existence from the face of the earth forever. Half of America feels somewhat dispossessed by the results of this election. The other half might be secretly wondering if their guy will come through. I only feel a dark cloud of doubt descend upon me every time I remember what happened Tuesday night.
I don't think in terms of nation, but of earth and the viability of survival for myself and my family in the ecosystem. Guess I'm a one worlder, believing that the earth is not property, borders can't be seen from space, and you should not be held to different standards depending on the color of your skin, your gender, how much money you have, or where you were born.
I believe in evolution and the science that points to human caused climate change. I've watched the world population triple in my lifetime. US and western nation involvement in the ME since WWII has helped to precipitate terrorism, so it's partly our fault. The idea that the leader of the free world might disagree with these ideas troubles me deeply and doesn't bode well for humanity. We have lived on the edge of extinction since the start of the nuclear age. Sometimes it feels like trying to breathe with a cinder block on my chest, trying to live without worrying about that kind of annihilation, a lifetime long nightmare.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 13, 2016 - 09:57am PT
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^^^Thanks for that.
Voting for the environment, as YC says, is a good idea. The model of making decisions based on the outcome seven generations out is a good idea, too.
There is stuff that can be fixed later in the big picture. If we f*#k up the environment too much we can't go back and fix it.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Nov 13, 2016 - 02:24pm PT
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I find his behavior toward his daughter Ivanka disgusting to a degree I have no words for
You said you deleted it. Does that mean you were in error? Explain publicly, please.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Nov 13, 2016 - 04:23pm PT
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Trump Won
Move on.
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David Knopp
Trad climber
CA
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Nov 13, 2016 - 06:18pm PT
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^^^^^^^
no, thanks though.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Nov 13, 2016 - 10:19pm PT
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Nice post Mark. Interesting how madbolter got all butt hurt that some might be unhappy with the election and now is an expert on the Constitution and 1st Amendment (just to be clear, he's not). This after all the verbal diarrhea spouted by his candidate. Guess, what dude, the 1st Amendment doesn't only protect speech you agree with.
Having said that Trump did win (though not because of the wisdom of his supporters, who seemed far too eager to disregard his MANY racist and misogynist comments). As a result, I'll give the guy a chance to prove his merit. My hope is the weight of the office and its history will persuade him to govern rather than dictate. Hope springs eternal.
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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Nov 13, 2016 - 10:44pm PT
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be encouraged by your own positive actions.. I support you in your good results,sincerely.. even though i probably think you have done on balance more good, than hillary has.
hope we can watch for positive results in our nation.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 14, 2016 - 07:26am PT
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golden, I'm with you on this. Thanks for posting that info on those Trump-Stern interviews.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
[Click to View YouTube Video]
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Also, with Tiffany...
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Do I think there is incest? No. Do I think there is a creepy and disturbing incestuous quality about his relationship with his daughter? Yes.
As a dad to three daughters it disgusts me. It elicits a visceral revulsion. It also points to the primitive brain focused aspect of the man.
Here is John Oliver's take of where we are.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Fat Dad, It's interesting how so many make outrageous statements, claims, or positions that are supposedly based upon the wisdom of the Founding Fathers and they don't know anything about our founding documents and how our government works - only what they've been told. It happens often with the Bible as well with people proselytizing and knowing only what they've been told.
That is how free men and women become sheep.
We let ourselves be contolled and manipulated so easily.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Nov 14, 2016 - 07:46am PT
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Keillor gets this right.
Alas for the Trump voters, the disasters he will bring on this country will fall more heavily on them than anyone else. The uneducated white males who elected him are the vulnerable ones and they will not like what happens next.
I'm sure the JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs executives he's appointing to the cabinet are very concerned with the welfare of the white working class. Not.
The white working class should not be blaming the plutocrats for screwing them over the last 30 years. That's what plutocrats do, it is their nature. The working class needs to point their fingers at the real group that failed them: themselves.
From the 1850s to the 1950s the labor movement stood together and greatly enhanced the living conditions of not only themselves, but of the middle class as well. They did this by enormous sacrifice of blood, sweat and tears. Neither murder nor intimidation stopped them.
The good life did, though. And they let the plutocrats manipulate them, misdirecting them with guns, abortion, religion and racism. So instead of looking out for what was good for America, they got fooled into voting for the 0.1%.
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c wilmot
climber
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Nov 14, 2016 - 07:49am PT
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Keillor is just another old white racist male whining. If he hates white men so much- then why is he still around? Pretty sure he can reduce the problem by one
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whoops
climber
paradise, ca
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Nov 14, 2016 - 10:57am PT
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"I find his behavior toward his daughter Ivanka disgusting to a degree I have no words for
You said you deleted it. Does that mean you were in error? Explain publicly, please."
So, did you get your answer Mr Gill? Trump said what he said and it's on the record. We'll soon see if his monetary policies work (they won't), whether he builds a wall (he won't), whether he negotiates better trade deals (unlikely), or any number of promises he made to his base that won't get done. But forget all that, the trump masses elected a man that treats women as nothing more than a life support system for a "pussy". As a father of girls and a human being, I will not forget. This kind of behavior, by the person that leads this country, cannot be normalized.
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