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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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"HDDJ,
We can't go back in time to fix the past mistakes, have to deal with the current problems. IF the allies had been more gracious winners after WWI, Germany might not have had a depression and Hitler a vehicle for power, but it didn't matter on 12/07/41. And 1953 didn't matter on 9/11/01.
Jody's evil twin. "
Fatty seriously. Its not about FIXING past mistakes its about LEARNING from them. I hope you don't manage people's retirements in this fashion...
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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i was wrong
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mdavid
Big Wall climber
CA, CO, TX
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I'm confused why Isreal should allow Palestinians who turned against them to repatriate. Seems that egypt and the other countries would be more than happy to assist.....it's pretty obvious that the Palestinians poverty and isolation furthers the anti Isreali position.
You can be sure that I will cast my agnostic, climber, libertarian lot with the group of control freaks who DON'T want to stone me to death for my lifestyle.
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426
Sport climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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"I've read a few articles that said the writing was on the walls, that slavery was on the decline throughout the western world and that it would have more than likely been gone by 1870."
Oughta come visit the south and chat with family 'friends' Pat and Jan...they still pine over the "good ol' days" and have the porcelain "butler" to remind us all...
Heck, even the Constitution endorsed slavery (Persons of Service? 3/5ths anyone?)...
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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"i was wrong"
Nice Batrock. You might be the first person in 100's of posts in these "admit you were wrong" threads to actually do so.
A fine move whether you meant it or not!
Those who are convinced that we have to squash Islam because we've pissed em off and so they hate us now are wrong and are not going off evidence but hype.
The Arabs know it's our government and not our people (although you wouldn't know it from some internet sites)
Treating Muslims fair is the one huge step that could set all this right. We have to solve the Palestinian problem and the rest will follow quickly. Even the Iraq Study groups notes how important that is.
It's not a one sided violence despite what we get in the press. As a gauge, the Israels have killed far more Palestinian Children than terrorists have killed Israeli Children. Not a good sign when one side has vastly more power and ability to strike precisely than the other. Just today it's announced that Israel is destroying 42,000 Palestinian homes in the Negev desert because, even though many date to before 1948, they are in unauthorized villages, while they let their unauthorized settlements on occupied lands that the UN and no other country even accept, to stand.
First step to truth. Clean up your act, not kill em all cause they'll never forgive you!
Peace
Karl
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Here is a thought.
All of the Palestinian refugees, who are currently illegaly denied return to their ancestoral homes by the state of Israel, spontaneously convert to Judiasm. Then American Tax dollars could be spent building them homes in the choice parts of the Occupied territories rather than on Caterpillar bulldozers the sole purpose of which is to destroy the homes of Palestinians'in the Occupied territories.
Then if Israel truly were the democracy it is touted as being prehaps a South African type of justice might prevail. They might even ratify a National Constitution.
Whoa! Crap! What was I thinking? Must of been a Sixties flash back. Sorry guys I'll try to not let that happen again.
Hey DaftRat how is your Religion of War going?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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"Healyje,
You constantly amaze me in your inability to see the solution to Iraq. A draft and the elimination of the regimes/leaders/clerics that fund militant Islam around the world. Hand the whole thing over to Abdullah in ten years.
Jody's evil twin. "
And what amazes me more is your continued hubris and arrogance in the assumption that you KNOW the solution. A draft is not a practicable solution unless you simply want to tread water in Iraq for 2 years, and even then the Generals say more troops won't help! And then of course part of your 'solutions' always involve killing MORE people.
You couldn't be any less creative or less ingenious or less pragmatic in your proposal. It's the "a hammer didn't work so let's try a bigger hammer" approach. The problem isn't that we aren't doing enough damage its that we are doing too much!
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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A FENCE. You call that landgrabbing prison wall a fence. I quess it was JUST A FENCE in Berlin too. DaftRat you are so out of touch with anything other than the hackneyed propaganda of the Zionists.
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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The fence in Berlin was to imprison people--keep them in. The fence in Israel is to keep murderous thugs out. I guess you're too abtuse to notice the difference, or you don't want to.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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healyje said, This is wholly the wrong approach to war. If you are going to fight a war then it should not be a 'business as usual affair'!!!
It should be a get every human in the country worked up and focused, go in with beyond overwhelming force, and with the resources to rebuild the infrastructure and clean up the mess in six months to a year max. It would be good practice for when we need to rebuild a city of our own as then there would actually be folks around who know how to do it.
freakin exactly right.
bushs new lingo is " the path forward". similar to the tack FORD motors took when announcing the layoff of thousands of auto workers who got screwed when their management couldnt do the right thing. wonder who is getting screwed now fatty? go bend your fatass over in front of the mirror buddy.
edit: i am too afraid to look, i already know i am gettin it.
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Blight
Social climber
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It should be a get every human in the country worked up and focused, go in with beyond overwhelming force, and with the resources to rebuild the infrastructure and clean up the mess in six months to a year max. It would be good practice for when we need to rebuild a city of our own as then there would actually be folks around who know how to do it.
That's exactly what we DID try to do.
"Shock and awe" remember?
Billions in reconstruction contracts to US companies, remember?
It didn't work. Anyone got a NEW suggestion?
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Woody, The Berlin "FENCE"? I was there that was No FENCE. That was a WALL a massive prison WALL!
What the Israeli's are building is a BIGGER WALL than Berlin. Bigger not better. Taller, thicker, nastier, more ILLEGAL!
The "murderous thugs" are in fact the illegal settlers who abuse humiliate and kill the local Palestinians every day. And the people being "kept in" are in fact the local Palestinians who are being "kept out" of their farms and orchards. They are being forced to live in a Bantu stan prison camp.
And Woody what is "abtuse" ?????? (No such word)
Did you mean to say obtuse (exceeding 90% but less than 180%)?
Or prehaps you meant to say abstruse (hard to understand)
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turd
climber
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"six months to a year max"
This is where most of the american public loses touch with reality.
You can't "win" a counterinsurgency in a year. Can't be done. That's part A.
Part B: Break out your history books and see how long it took to rebuild Germany after WWII.
As far as our "other" war in Aghanistan, if we are serious about combatting terrorism, it will take generations, even more money, and a much different aproach than we are using right now.
It won't matter, because we aren't really serious. As with any difficult endeavor, the public loses interest after about 2 months anyway.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Just a typical footnote on the yahoo news this morning
"Amir Fayadh, the mayor of the al-Ishaqi area, east of the lake, and local police said 19 civilians were killed during airstrikes on two houses, and Fayadh said the dead included seven women and eight children."
Just goes to show how far from order we are in Iraq when we're still bombing them from the sky! and even when lots of women and children die in the process. You have to expect that killing kids makes people mad all over the world and therefore makes things less, rather than more, stable
peace
karl
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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No it was a typo. I meant obtuse. Further, I was in Berlin at one time also and observed the fence/wall.
Give it up. The Israeis aren't goint to pack up and move out or allow the "right of return" any more than we will give back North America to the Indians.
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Caveman
climber
Cumberland Plateau
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"Oughta come visit the south and chat with family 'friends' Pat and Jan...they still pine over the "good ol' days" and have the porcelain "butler" to remind us all..."
I doubt that they have been around long enough to have known slavery. They are probably just reacting to "Baggers". Haven't you heard the saying about yankees as opposed to black folk. caveman
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TrundleOn
Boulder climber
above you
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Fatrad, why can't the Palestinians have the U.N. solution with the 1967 boundaries?
Anyway, how's that occupation thing working out for ya?
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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I had heard too many horror stories about Saddam and his two sons and thought we should take him out. It sounded like a good idea. I remembered Yugoslavia, with all that ethnic cleansing and how the Euros didn't stop it and it seemed criminal not to interceed. Now I recognize that sending an ocupying army was the craziest thing imaginable. I deeply regret thinking otherwise, but not so much as those who have died over there--on all sides.
JL
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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If we'd just stayed long enough to kick his ass out during the Gulf War then gone home, we wouldn't be in Iraq now.
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