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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Mar 29, 2016 - 03:05pm PT
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I love the humility of admitting that we honestly don't know why God created hallucinogenic plants. The rest of the stuff we believe is child's play in comparison. Well, I mean, if the bible, which we honestly and humbly know is entirely true, says so. Oky doky then.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Mar 29, 2016 - 03:23pm PT
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The best one was still about God banging some other dudes wife.
Laughing smiley face.
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ecdh
climber
the east
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Mar 29, 2016 - 04:04pm PT
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So its official: a god that doesnt exist allows people who can think for themselves to have the same privileges as those who abuse in the arrogance of ideology. The voices in his head tell him so...
I loathe that if the pope says it its doctrine but if anyone else says it its irrelevant.
Nice of frank to say so, but an abomination that hes invested with the power for it to matter.
As a healthy primate its impossible to give any of that any more creedence than a furry freak brothers comic.
To be included in the lies of another i dont consider an honor
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Norton
Social climber
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Mar 29, 2016 - 04:07pm PT
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Not real sure if I could ever fully trust a dude named Francis...
especially when he wears his really cool red pumps.....
and the accessories the guy wears, the caps, gowns, staffs, pumps
I mean, code for gay?
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ecdh
climber
the east
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Mar 29, 2016 - 04:15pm PT
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I like the francis name.
One of the few characters in theology i dig was his namesake, who rallied against the excesses of the church, went for direct experience, disdained followers and hung out on mountains. Only when he started to influence rich kids to question materilism and the crusades did church reel him in - actually against the will of the pope.
The original francis was alright.
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Lurkingtard
climber
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Mar 29, 2016 - 04:37pm PT
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moosedrool
climber
Andrzej Citkowicz far away from Poland
Mar 29, 2016 - 04:31pm PT
I've heard, in hell, gym climbing only.
Full of young Asian chicks.
Now you're just baiting DMT.
~~~
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 29, 2016 - 06:40pm PT
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When crucified, Jesus was nailed up through his wrists. Why is he depicted with wounds on his palms? There's a lot of debate on how Romans used to crucify people and evidence that they used a variety of methods. Jesus is depicted as being nailed up by his hands because Jesus shows Thomas scars on his hands and it's the only place where anything specific is mentioned (John 20:27).
Did God create sin? If so, sounds like the game is rigged. I believe God created humans with free will and Satan was an angel (with free will) who decided to not follow God and deceive people into following his example, that's why he's called the the father of lies (John 8:44). Sin is basically not following God so it comes with the free will thing.
I'll have a problem with the idea that if you don't accept Jesus your going to hell. What about all the people that never even heard of him,Native Americans, very young children etc.? Great, and tough, question. First, I believe that priests in the old testament would offer sacrificed for people who sinned in ignorance (numbers 15:22-29) and because Jesus was the final sacrifice for all sins (Hebrews 10:12) his blood covered those sins as well. We at least know that Jesus made a distinction between sins committed in ignorance and those that weren't (Luke 12:47-48).
But, the bible teaches that anyone who searches for God will find him (Deuteronomy 4:29) so I believe it is possible for anyone to know him. It also says that nobody has an excuse because knowledge of God is inherent, so everyone will at least consider the idea and decide whether or not to reject it (Romans 1:19-20).
Bottom line is that I believe that God has revealed himself to everyone so they can know his love and mercy. The problem is not that some people never hear about Christ, but that they reject what has been revealed to them. He wants everyone to know about him (2 Peter 3:9) and whatever we believe about this question he wants Christians to share his message (Matthew 28:19-20).
As a side note, I believe that everyone has sinned and does not deserve a reward (Romans 3:23) so even if only a few people accept the love of Jesus he is still merciful. It always comes back to the love of Jesus.
Does the golden rule apply to off widths? I believe it does and offwidths don't want me to climb them so I will not climb them.
OK, serious question.
In Exodus, God wanted Pharoah to let his people go and sent Moses to deliver the message: let my people go, or else Egypt is in for a world of hurt.
God tells Moses how it will go down: God will unleash is fury on Egypt, and Pharoah will decide to let His people go. Then God will "harden" Pharoah's heart to change his mind and not let His people go. God will then unleash another catastrophe on Egypt. Pharoah will decide to let His people go, then God will "harden" Pharoah's heart to change his mind and not let His people go. And so forth.
And that's how it goes down. Pharoah says he'll let the people go, then God changes the Pharoah's mind to not let the people go. More disasters for Egypt follow, and so on.
So, what's the point? If God could bend Pharoah to His will, why not just have Pharoah let his people go? If God just wanted to kill lots of Egyptians why not just be up front about it and forget this charade I believe God's answer to this, that it was to demonstrate his power so that his name might be proclaimed throughout the earth (Exodus 9:16, Romans 9:17). Some people think that Pharoah hardened his own heart and God used it for his purposes. Either way, would anyone have ever heard of the slaves that asked to leave and were given permission and then walked around in the desert? God seems to be right in that his power has been spoken of around the world because of this story. I believe the will and plan of God are beyond our understanding, but it's fun to talk about (Romans 11:33-36, 1 Corinthians 2:9).
One more thing, if the pestilence has already killed all the animals in Egypt, how can the hail kill more? I've heard several possible explanations for this. I believe any one is possible any only one needs to be for there to not be a contradiction.
-The verses never mention goats so they could have survived.
-The servants of Pharoah who feared God were warned.
-The bible does not say how long it was between plagues so they could have taken some from the Israelites or bought more from the surrounding areas. (I doubt they bred a new population because the whole series of events took less than 2 years.)
-All could have meant "all types" and not "every single living animal."
Why do your people come to my door and ask me stupid questions?
Ha! I don't personally know anyone who does this but they come to my door too. Think of evangelists in this way to give them the benefit of the doubt as people: Imagine you were convinced you had the cure for cancer and it would drastically improve countless people's lives. Would you worry about bothering people or what the holistic medicine crowd would think? I assume anyone who cares about their fellow humans would want to share what they honestly believe will benefit the lives of others, so try to have some patience with those people who interrupt dinner, even if you disagree with them :)
I believe the Catholic church has it wrong when they believe that the Pope, or anyone, can add to what's been taught in the bible because they have some sort of special access. The bible teaches to not add anything (Deuteronomy 4:12, Proverbs 3:16, Revelations 22:18-19) and that Jesus provides equal access to God for everyone who believes (Ephesians 2:18, Romans 5:2). I think the Pope is some sort of vestige from the prophets and priests in the old testament, but there are some verses that can be misunderstood that way so I don't think they're being intentionally deceptive.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Mar 29, 2016 - 06:44pm PT
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Being a completely centrist tolerant secular liberal atheist
I encourage you to have fun with whatever makes you happy
I have problems with the intolerance of tolerance
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d-know
Trad climber
electric lady land
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Mar 29, 2016 - 06:57pm PT
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Why do you believe
a zombie is the
salvation of
humanity?
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Norton
Social climber
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Mar 29, 2016 - 07:03pm PT
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Do Christians believe that Radiometric Dating has accurately pegged the first usage
of stone tools by Hominids in East Africa to be accurate at 2.5 million years ago?
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John M
climber
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Mar 29, 2016 - 07:27pm PT
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The bible teaches to not add anything (Deuteronomy 4:12, Proverbs 3:16, Revelations 22:18-19)
I don't see how the first two verses have to do with not adding to the "bible". which didn't exist when deuteronomy or proverbs were written. What is in the bible was determined by men. As for the verse in Revelations, it is clearly speaking about the prophecy of revelations. Which by the way has been changed/added to.
http://historical-jesus.info/rjohn.html
So as near as I can see, there are no verses that say to not add to the bible. That is a fear teaching. The bible says over and over to fear not.
Jesus said he had more to tell us, but we weren't ready for it at that time. Is there no time now or in the future when Jesus could explain more about life? Has no one matured in the Christ mind since Jesus' death? Or did we take Jesus' teachings and then stagnate? If so, then that would be a sad testimony to Jesus' life.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 29, 2016 - 07:43pm PT
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Why do you believe
a zombie is the
salvation of
humanity? I do not believe Jesus ate brains.
Do Christians believe that Radiometric Dating has accurately pegged the first usage
of stone tools by Hominids in East Africa to be accurate at 2.5 million years ago? Christians have many opinions on evolution and the age of the earth. I don't believe that the topic has an effect on salvation or anyone's personal relationship with Jesus. I'm fine with someone taking all of the Bible literally or someone thinking that because Jesus used parables to teach in the New Testament, perhaps God used parables to teach in the Old Testament. I don't have any answer that I'm willing to go to the grave defending.
I don't see how the first two verses have to do with not adding to the "bible". which didn't exist when deuteronomy or proverbs were written. What is in the bible was determined by men. As for the verse in Revelations, it is clearly speaking about the prophecy of revelations. Which by the way has been changed/added to.
http://historical-jesus.info/rjohn.html
So as near as I can see, there are no verses that say to not add to the bible. That is a fear teaching. The bible says over and over to fear not.
Jesus said he had more to tell us, but we weren't ready for it at that time. Is there no time now or in the future when Jesus could explain more about life? Has no one matured in the Christ mind since Jesus' death? Or did we take Jesus' teachings and then stagnate? If so, then that would be a sad testimony to Jesus' life. |
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Mar 29, 2016 - 07:47pm PT
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Are you a Christian Apologist?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Mar 29, 2016 - 07:52pm PT
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I would like to ask a PERSON...not a christian, jew, muslim, hindu, buddhist, atheist et al. The fact that so many people identify themselves by their religious beliefs is a major reason the world is so f*#ked up.
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7SacredPools
Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
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Mar 29, 2016 - 07:55pm PT
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I'm fine with someone taking all of the Bible literally
So... you're cool with people being stoned to death for working on the sabbath, disrespecting their parents etc., etc.?
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John M
climber
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Mar 29, 2016 - 07:58pm PT
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I don't mean to sound like a hard ass, nor do I wish to be argumentative with you, but Galatians 6 is not about adding to or taking away from the "bible". It is about not changing the story of Jesus.
Again, Jesus said he had more to say to us. This is the part that I am referring to. The modern church seems to ignore this when it tries to say that the bible is the only word of God and one shouldn't add to it. Jesus wanted to add to it, but we weren't ready. Men created the bible. They chose what would go in it and what wouldn't. And it was contentious at the time. They were doing something noble in attempting to bring together a very large group of inspired teachings to make it possible for the masses to study. But the modern church has perverted that effort by teaching that it now is the only word of God, when it was never meant to be that.
So again I ask. When will people be ready? Has no one on this planet put on the Christ mind since Jesus" death? If they have, then could not Jesus expound to them more teachings?
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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Mar 29, 2016 - 07:59pm PT
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I find it impossible to believe that a supposedly omnipotent, omniscient & omnipresent being that is touted to be loving and forgiving would allow the myriad of tragedies and injustices to occur, particularly to the children and truly loving inhabitants of this planet. If there is such a being, then it is cruelly sadistic and unworthy of our worship.
That we have consciousness is a product of millenia of evolutionary changes beginning with random chemical reactions, gradually increasing in complexity to ensure survival in changing environments. We have invented the concept of god as a salve to keep from going insane trying to figure out what it all means. Along the way people have figured out deities are a very convenient way to control the masses while amassing power & fortunes.
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John M
climber
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Mar 29, 2016 - 08:08pm PT
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I find it impossible to believe that a supposedly omnipotent, omniscient & omnipresent being that is touted to be loving and forgiving would allow the myriad of tragedies and injustices to occur, particularly to the children and truly loving inhabitants of this planet. If there is such a being, then it is cruelly sadistic and unworthy of our worship.
This is why the teachings on reincarnation should never have been removed by the "christian" church. The modern Christian church has failed its mission when it fails to answer this reasonable question. To say that we can not know the mind of God is inadequate and a failure. The teachings exist. The modern Christian church chooses not to see because it has bought wholesale the lie that the bible is the complete teachings of God. It isn't even close.
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d-know
Trad climber
electric lady land
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Mar 29, 2016 - 08:09pm PT
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Immaculate conception
and resurrection.
How does one
reconcile with
such intellectual
dishonesty?
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