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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 8, 2016 - 10:35am PT
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GDavis. Yes. It's more complicated than a flippant answer would provide. They wouldn't be true. There can be many different feelings involved in such a thing. It ranges from what Dingus said, to a wish to not hurt.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Thanks Lollie,
Exactly why I'm still for affirmative action and other proactive policies. Thanks for understanding. That's not often the case when discussing some topics. We are allies. My point that feminism has an image problem is for feminists to understand where their message is missing it's mark. And I really considered myself a feminist until I began to interact with a feminist family court. It has devastated families as much as the masculinist family courts did 100 years ago. There are other reasonable criticisms of some feminist thinking but my raison d'être is children's rights to both parents. If feminism will take up that cause then I'll set aside any other criticisms. ( caveat: and children's right to not get bombed influences my policy suggestions.)
Death to patriarchy! ( and a pox on those phony queens of England;)
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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The Warbler posted I agree they should have equal rights, but special privileges?
Like what?
And what special privileges do men have?
Am I missing out on something?
The Warbler posted Hddj, I'm plenty familiar with women's issues, thanks : )
These are not congruent statements. It's like saying that you're familiar with aeronautics but don't get how we could have launched a rocket to the moon.
Flipflop posted My point that feminism has an image problem is for feminists to understand where their message is missing it's mark.
Is this a troll? Did you pull that right from the dictionary definition of "mansplain?"
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 8, 2016 - 10:40am PT
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F. In your former post you didn't ask "Why", but "How do you know..."
And yeah, I think I do imply that.
I had to look the word up, misandric, but you're wrong about that part. This is a thing about human and sexual relations, not a performance thing. Well, sometimes it is.
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F
climber
away from the ground
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Yep. That's what I asked. I'm trying to clarify your response to me, courteously. Are you saying that I will learn to know when a woman fakes an orgasm, because you have a crystal ball? Or because your are assuming that in my future a woman will fake an orgasm, and I'll figure it out?
Like I said, that's a rather misandric assumption, if that's what you're saying.
Or in simpler terms - which one of the three orgasms my lady friend had last night was fake? I'd like for you to let me in on the subtle details so I'll be more aware in the future.
If that's really an assumption, or generalization you believe, on what basis did you come to that conclusion? Because you've known me well for years? Or from your own subjective experience?
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 8, 2016 - 10:59am PT
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my raison d'être is children's rights to both parents. If feminism will take up that cause then I'll set aside any other criticisms.
Flip-Flop, I'm sorry about the state of things in the USA. In Sweden we did. The feminist (equality) movement fought for both parents right to custody of the child in a divorce. It used to be like in the States, the mother got the children.
The divorce law was changed, maybe some 30-35 years ago. It now states that both parents have an equal right to the children, and the parent who fights the other parent's right to his/hers child, will be the one to lose custody. It put an effective end to all fights about custody. Now everybody split fifty-fifty. Most common solution is every other week. (If the parents themselves agree upon some other solution, it's ok, of course. As long as the child has access to both parents.) The only custody trials nowadays is when children are abused by one parent.
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 8, 2016 - 11:09am PT
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F. Since you asked how one knows it, I must assume you don't know. Why else would you ask?
To clarify, my response was to what YOU wrote. I don't give damn about your sexual life.
The answer means that when one knows one's partner well, one learns the responses too.
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F
climber
away from the ground
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Lollie, you're right. My first question was how, second was why.
I do find your assumption rather insulting, and assumptive, of men in general. Thus the misandry vibe.
A similarly insulting generalization might be. "Women are bitches when they are mensturating."
I'm not making that generalization, mind you, because my experience has shown it to not hold true with all women.
Similarly, some women are moody while mensturating, some aren't. Some women fake orgasms, and some don't.
Don't let your subjective experience cloud your objective observations. Just saying.
I'm trying to keep a polite discussion afloat, but one of this nature tends to inflame both sides....
I ask because I'm trying to make a point, not because I'm ignorant, or might not be able to figure it out. Whether you get my point, if I'm making it clear, or continue to imply things about my sexual experiences, will say a lot about your position and thought process.
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 8, 2016 - 11:30am PT
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Well, about the why, my post to GDavis answers that.
I don't think it's a generalization, I think it's rather the conditions of life and being a human being.
The sexual relation is a complicated thing, (which doesn't mean that the sex has to be complicated). It changes over the years, it's different with different partners, one has good sex and bad. Sometimes one's frail, sometimes one's on top of things.
To live a lifetime and never encounter a faked orgasm, well, I somehow think that's rare. Of course it happens, I didn't say it was without exceptions. But look at divorce rates, how do you think the sex is when a marriages starts turning sour? So much happens in a life.
As far as I know, you can be a lucky one. As I said before, I don't care about your sexlife. I actually haven't said a word about it. Not in my original post, nor in the following. You're reading something into it which isn't there. Be happy if it's good.
Oh, and btw, it's not only women who fakes. Mostly, but not only.
And, :-)
I'm not inflamed by the subject. If anything, amused. Now don't let THAT piss you off. I think it's interesting.
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F
climber
away from the ground
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That was a great post Lollie. It's nice having a reasonable discussion about this. I think I see where you're coming from. It just got light, I'm gonna go do some gender neutral shredding of the most wax less gnar ever with my lady friend. I'll ask her about the subject, and let you know what she thinks. She a very open person. Interestingly, she did some time in the CG, also.
Too bad Chuffles isn't around to blow our minds on the subject matter somehow.
Cheers.
Edit-
I did just realize realize the reference above could be taken out of context. We're going skiing. Please locker, go climbing or something and don't photo shop an image of someone "shredding the most wax less Gnar".
XOXO!
YAY!!!
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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The Warbler posted What special privileges to accommodate their issues should women have that they don't already have?
That's just it. They shouldn't have special privileges to accommodate their issues. Your whole attitude proves the issue exists. I'm not going to take my time to do basic education on this, plus I'm no expert. There are far better resources than me. If you care enough to have an opinion about it then care enough to do some basic reading.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Lollie, sorry if I missed it, but I'm interested in your perspective on the why in your original post. Why is it that we find humans and human society using "balls" to mean toughness and "pussy" to mean weakness?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Dingus posted: "No sales tax on feminine hygiene products."
The 'Woman Tax': How Gendered Pricing Costs Women Almost $1,400 A Year
In 2010, Consumer Reports found that equivalent products in a drugstore, like deodorant or shampoo, cost more if they were marketed to women. They asked the manufacturers why and almost across the board, the companies said it was more expensive to manufacture products for women.
“They are completely different formulations,” said one spokesperson of two antiperspirants with the exact same percentages of the exact same ingredients. Representatives of the offending companies also cited differences in packaging and foaming action (which women apparently requested) as reasons for disparate pricing.
A study from the University of Central Florida drew similar conclusions. It found that on average, women’s deodorants were priced 30 cents higher than men’s, when “the only discernible difference was scent.” It’s a similar case for most products marketed to women, such as razors and shampoo, which smell different and look different but at the end of the day serve the same purpose as scent-less, glitter-less versions. (Learn how to save on beauty products in our Priceless Style Bootcamp.)
On Anything Imported
Part of the reason this happens is because products for women cost more from the get-go, starting when they enter the United States. Marie Claire tells the story of a trade lawyer named Michael Cone, who was sifting through the list of tariffs (fees the U.S. charges to import goods from other countries) and noticed something incredible: The tariffs differed across gender lines.
For example, men’s sneakers were taxed at 8.5%, while women’s were taxed at 10%. Not every garment tariff he discovered was in favor of men, but he did find that women were susceptible to higher taxes on those goods imported to the U.S. at the highest volume. While there is no legal loophole or ostensible reason for the discrepancy, Marie Claire points out that there’s a history of bias in tariffs–before the Civil War, it cost less to import cheap wool so slaveowners could clothe their slaves. At this point, inequality in tariffs is just the way it has always been.
Cone gathered together over 100 companies to join him in the discrimination lawsuit he brought against the U.S. government, promising millions of dollars of unconstitutional fees if they won. The suit is currently pending.
… And at the Doctor’s Office
And then there’s health insurance. Here’s a startling fact: A nonsmoking woman often pays a higher premium than a smoking man. Women pay a total $1 billion more on annual health care costs than men, according to the National Women’s Law Center. The discrepancy is called gender rating, and in states that haven’t banned it, 92% of the top insurance plans charge women more.
Insurance companies say that women pay more because they’re more expensive customers who utilize more health services. While there are the obvious reasons (there is no male equivalent to the gynecologist, and women are the only ones seeing doctors when pregnant), most plans that discriminate, according to new research from the National Women’s Law Center, don’t cover maternity services.
There is also the fact that healthy men don’t go to doctors like healthy women. Research consistently proves this: A Louis Harris and Associates survey of over 4,000 men showed that not only did three times more men than women avoid the doctor in the previous year, but that a third of those men surveyed had no regular physician. A 2011 survey from Esquire Magazine found similar results.
Therefore, women demand more from health insurance … and pay for it.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Lollie, we could hang out and have a blast. Swedes are crazy fun.
Theres a tendency over here to be unwilling to bear critique. C'est la vie.
And as for the rest,
I enjoy the privilege to do the hard and dirty work that no woman should be asked to do. The heavy lifting. I give up my privilege to the office jobs forever, to the jobs that allow fashionable clothes, take them and enjoy.
I enjoy the chance of sharing my labors with anyone to the best of their abilities and inclinations.
I enjoy the responsibility of facing the bumps in the night as well as changing diapers.
And I'm down with the clitoris and a few other erogenous zones. Some of these fools can take the fun right out of a joke. If a reformed feminist may offer a couple of terms of endearment, may I suggest the following
"Is that good right there?"
The gentle reminder that honesty is the best policy when it comes to the amorous arts with the solid fact that she chose the right man for the job.
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 8, 2016 - 12:54pm PT
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LOL, F. Thanks for the explanation. I thought it meant something completely else than skiing. :-)
What's CG?
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 8, 2016 - 12:59pm PT
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...why dont you gals just buy the men's stuff?
You mean, like in buying the men's tampoons?
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MattB
Trad climber
Tucson
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Maybe Coast Guard?
Gender differences come from both rearing practices, and hormone differences. How much, who knows.
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 8, 2016 - 01:46pm PT
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LOL, Dingus!
Warbler, you really don't have a clue.
Statistics about domestic violence.
Women are much more likely to be victims of intimate partner violence with 85 percent of domestic abuse victims being women and 15 percent men.
Men are victims of nearly 3 million physical assaults in the USA.
More than 4 million women experience physical assault and rape by their partners.
Note the difference in those two sentences. The second is how many women, the assault can, and often is, repeated. In the first case it's how many assaults, not how many men.
In 2 out of 3 female homicide cases, females are killed by a family member or intimate partner.
1 in 4 women will experience domestic violence during her lifetime.
Without help, girls who witness domestic violence are more vulnerable to abuse as teens and adults.
Without help, boys who witness domestic violence are far more likely to become abusers of their partners and/or children as adults, thus continuing the cycle of violence in the next generation.
Or to put it differently
The number of American troops killed in Afghanistan and Iraq between 2001 and 2012 was 6,488. The number of American women who were murdered by current or ex male partners during that time was 11,766. That's nearly double the amount of casualties lost during war.
8,000,000. The number of days of paid work women lose every year because of the abuse perpetrated against them by current or former male partners. This loss is equivalent to over 32,000 full-time jobs.
40-45%. The percentage of women in physically abusive relationships who are raped and/or assaulted during the relationship.
Income;
United States
No matter what their race/ethnicity, age, occupation, or education, all women are impacted by the gender wage gap.
The gender pay gap is defined as the difference between the median earnings of women and men. This can be either the earnings ratio or the actual pay gap.
Women earned on average $0.78 to every $1 earned by men in 2013 (78%) for annual earnings.
In 2014 women earned 82.5% of men's salaries based on median weekly earnings for full-time workers compared to 62.1% in 1979.
Women's median weekly earnings for full-time work (2014) = $719 compared to $871 for men.
Women's median annual earnings for full-time work (2013) = $39,157 compared to $50,033 for men.
The gap doesn't close the higher women go.
In 2014, the median weekly earnings for women in full-time management, professional, and related occupations was $981 compared to $1,346 for men.
Women have come a long way but are still not at parity. Women will need to work more than 70 additional days each year to catch up to men.
Women's increased education and workforce participation have narrowed the wage gap.
The "unexplained" wage gap = One year out of college, women earned 82% of what their male counterparts earned. After controlling for hours, occupation, college major, industry, and other factors, the pay gap shrinks to 6.6%.
The gender wage gap increases with age.
The earnings difference between women and men varies with age.
Younger women (89.8% of 20-24 year old women) are closer to pay equity than older women (73.7% for women 65+) for full-time wage and salary workers.20
Women were paid about 90% of what men earned until age 35, at which point median earnings for women start to slow down compared to men's earnings, further widening the pay gap.
The average full-time working woman will lose more than $460,000 over a 40 year period in wages due only to the wage gap. To catch up, she will need to work 12 additional years.
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 8, 2016 - 01:50pm PT
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:-) Huffington Post!
You're likely to find more feminists in Nordic countries than anywhere else around the world, according to a new survey on global attitudes toward gender equality.
The study also noted that the higher a country's GDP per capita, the more progressive its attitudes toward gender equality. However, the United States, Singapore and Saudi Arabia bucked this trend, with more conservative outlooks in proportion to their economic wealth.
There was also "virtually no gap" between the views of men and women in Sweden, while there were considerable differences between the responses from men and women in Asian countries like China, Hong Kong and Singapore.
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Craig Fry wrote
And they should have special women privileges, why not?
Their life should be just as privileged as us white males have.
I demand gender equality in prison populations and workplace fatalities.
OK, just kiddin.
I always liked this quote:
Women now have choices. They can be married, not married, have a job, not have a job, be married with children, unmarried with children. Men have the same choice we've always had: work, or prison.
Tim Allen
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