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FTOR
Sport climber
CA
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Jan 25, 2017 - 12:05pm PT
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really like edavidso's design for these larger units, nice. think the split axel the way to go, but be mindful there are patents out there. one thing i found you can't get around is they are inherently unstable, they invert easily. more power to another oakland cam maker... mine were some of the first out there back in the day.
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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Jan 25, 2017 - 02:54pm PT
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The double axle patent ran out a while back as I recall, which is why you saw a flood of Friends and Dragons with them.
Raaf, get back to work. Stop drooling over gear. We have too much already. Now we actually have to go climbing once in a while to justify it.
I'd pony up for one too.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Jan 26, 2017 - 06:20pm PT
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Big cams are fun!
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edavidso
Trad climber
Oakland, CA
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Jan 27, 2017 - 07:26pm PT
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Great to see all the interest! I'll make a run of #8's first. The #10's are a couple iterations behind at this point so will be a bit before those are ready. Given my day job and limited access to machine tools, it'll probably be a few months before I have any #8's ready.
Tony Christianson's double axle cam patent expired about 10 years ago so no issues there. I filed a provisional on this design several months ago mostly just to keep the big players from "borrowing" any of my ideas.
Thanks for your patience!
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Jan 27, 2017 - 07:33pm PT
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Sounds good.
Sign me up for a #8, assuming the price is similar to a VG 9.
Will take it on the Salathe'.
My son / partner just hurt his knee, so I don't need to hurry and
cheat death with the old "Secret Weapon" this time.
Last time, on the last pitch, I placed it, it was sketchy,
and I could see if skated I'd hit a ledge and be hurt real bad$$!
It didn't skate, but I felt kinda dumb rolling the dice there.
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Jan 28, 2017 - 12:44am PT
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If I am not mistaken:
1. thebravecowboy 1 #8
2. nutstory 1 #8
3. Moof 1 #8
4. Alexey 1 #8
5. Studly 1 #8
6. Jaybro (of course ;-) 1 #8
7. Rhodo-Router 1 #8
8. couchmaster 2 #8’s and 1 #10
9. WyoRockMan 1 #8
10. go1dens4 1 #8
11. Trashman 1 #8 and 1 #10
12. Raafie 1 #8
13. Clint Cummins 1 #8
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Werd
Trad climber
CO
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Jan 28, 2017 - 08:40am PT
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Beauties. I'd like a #8 and #10 as long as price is ~ that for Valley Giants.
Thanks!
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Jan 28, 2017 - 08:56am PT
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UM.
Marty! Dude! ,
I c what i c! Owow! Looks as I'll have to work out to get in shape, just to get in shape to haul those suckers up on the tag line.
Anyway
Wow can you do a photo display of those ? 'Mega's?
The picture does not do them justice!
OopZ!!👫🌧hope the wife changes her mind . . . .
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lifeguard
Big Wall climber
Colorado
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Jan 29, 2017 - 09:58am PT
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I'll take:
2-#8's
1-#10
Please
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Jan 29, 2017 - 11:11am PT
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yes I am in for a #8, let me know how/when to get in touch/pay up....
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matty
Trad climber
under the sea
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Jan 29, 2017 - 12:39pm PT
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I should be between couchmaster and wyorockman on the list if keeping track and am in for 1 or 2 8's depending on price.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Jan 29, 2017 - 06:27pm PT
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Yes Karabin Climbing Museum is looking for a #8 and #10 for sure!
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haleyd
Trad climber
SLC
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Jan 29, 2017 - 09:42pm PT
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Sign me up for an 8 too. Pretty please :)
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Jan 30, 2017 - 01:36am PT
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I just now saw this post.
That post on MP is pretty funny complaining about them not being polished.
I'm afraid to look.
Erick's Wild Turkey cams are absolutely beautiful, and are so lightweight. The trigger mechanism, with integral lock, looks to be quite brilliant. They look like they are the optimal lightweight big cams. Hopefully, Erick can provide some to the many people posting here that they would like a lighter cam, as an alternative to the onerously massive Valley Giant.
Of course, the Valley Giant is heavy. It's supposed to be heavy. The heavy is what makes it great. If it wasn't heavy, everybody would do it.
The Valley Giant is heavy because it is strong.
Some thoughts on lightweight big cams, versus heavy big cams:
What I have found, in making Valley Giants over the past 15+ years, is that it is not too difficult to make lightweight cams - you just do what Erick did, and judiciously cut away as much lobe material as you think you can get away with. Also, you can use magnesium alloy or plywood for the lobes; a thinner steel cable loop, or a dyneema clip-in loop in a drinking straw; nylon monofilament trigger wires; hollow axles; flimsier springs.
What I have also found, after actually using big, lightweight cams for over 10 years, is that reducing the weight always reduces the strength. Eventually, the rather small weight savings didn't seem worth the significant reduction in strength, reliability and safety. Saving 24 ounces, for three lightweight magnesium MVG9 cams on a 150+ pound big wall rack, didn't make sense, especially in the context of an emergency or forced bivy situation where full-strength VG cams might be crucial.
For an ascent of the Salathe, a lightweight 200+mm cam probably makes sense. But, for a more serious OW experience, such as Excalibur, maybe not so much.
Big cams have a peculiar failure mechanism, wherein the lobes buckle sideways, deform into an arc, and fail due to lateral instability. This failure mode is difficult to model accurately with a FEA computer program, and not just because the configuration of the cam itself changes under increasing load. Surprisingly large lateral forces are applied to the lobes, even in a parallel-walled steel testing frame, and these lateral forces increase rapidly and non-linearly with increasing load. Irregular rock surfaces induce even more severe lateral forces on the lobes, which makes big cams considerably weaker in the field than in the laboratory.
Here is a photo of a what a Valley Giant VG9 (225mm maximum usable span) cam looks like after sustaining a 5500+ lb. (25 kN) load in a steel box testing frame. The lobes buckled and rolled on the axle until the cam pulled out of the 8-inch (200mm) frame.
By comparison, a magnesium MVG12 (300mm maximum span) that I used on the Son of Heart was deformed under awkward, off-axis, adverse C1 loading by body-weight and lie-back-type loading only, and suffered similar, but lesser, lateral bending of the lobes.
My point is that if you can 100% control the loading conditions of lightweight big cams, then there is no reason to not use them. But, if you are potentially facing awkward placements, unusual loading, bailing down unfamiliar terrain, or otherwise are unable to completely control how you will use your big cams, the significant extra strength of Valley Giant cams would seem to make more sense.
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Jan 30, 2017 - 03:12am PT
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Tom, « Wild Turkey » is the name that I gave to Erick's cams on my photo montage. Even if it seems that Erick enjoys it, I am not sure that he will keep it in the future.
Thank you for your post.
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jsj
climber
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Jan 30, 2017 - 06:35am PT
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edavidso - I sent you an email but I'm posting up here also to express my interest in getting a #8.
One question I have regarding performance is how well the cams track when being pushed forward up a crack (do the lobes tend to move evenly or does the cam tend to get lopsided)? This is something I've seen that the VG9 and large Camalots do pretty well; large WC Friends on the other hand are pretty bad in this regard.
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OlympicMtnBoy
climber
Seattle
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Jan 30, 2017 - 11:16am PT
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Count me in on the interest list for a #8 as well!
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J R
climber
bend
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Jan 30, 2017 - 11:17am PT
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Tom!
Thanks for the VG's. It was always a pleasure hauling those things to get me up my adventures!
~dave
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Jan 30, 2017 - 11:21am PT
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That VG 9 you made for me did just the trick TK, got me up the FA of a long-dreamed-of butte.
^ just a little too narrow for my chest, but just perfect for the VG 9....standing on that flake-top with no more cams that would fit, drilling a permanent anchor, that was a wild feeling. you enabled it. thank you!
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jan 30, 2017 - 12:02pm PT
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Nice corner!
And, like these guys said.! Thanks TK for the valley giant slalom, I love mine! And there is a whole list of climbs I wouldn't have done without them.
I'm sure that manufacturing them is not exactly a lucrative business. Thanks for providing that service!
I used to thinkyou didn't need pro when the cracks got that big. My view now is that although that is often the case, when you need 'em, you really, really, need 'em!
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