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crusher
climber
Santa Monica, CA
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Jan 18, 2016 - 02:14pm PT
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I'm like 3 steps forward, 2 steps back. Some good days, some not so good days. Keeping at the PT. I like the video too and am doing similar band exercises.
It didn't help that 10 days ago I took a flier off the back of a speeding treadmill (while running sprints) and came away with 5 stitches to the underside of my chin and mild whiplash. Set me back a bit since I was sore and cranky for the next 4-5 days. I still don't know what happened and I've never flown off the treadmill before or fallen. Just tripped somehow. Talk about discouraging...
My original upper arm pain is better, now I'm getting really, really sore and achy around my left shoulder blade and in my (left) trap FROM the PT exercises. But I can live with that if it's temporary.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 18, 2016 - 03:31pm PT
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@Ron:
Got the message. Thanks! Got the massage, too, just now. Some interesting stuff in that shoulder, let me tell you. Lady worked me! Went craggin' yesterday @ Texas Canyon and stuck to easy stuff--mostly 8's and a few moves of 9 here and there, heavy on the footwork. I'm going to keep it at that level for a while. The more I think about my situation, I think the posture/pec issue is central for me. Being tall, especially, I have tended to slump forward a little, which I'm sure has been putting things out of balance. I've slowly been gaining awareness of how I let my shoulders and neck slack forward in all kinds of settings. I'll be walking along or standing in line and the store and BAM! I'm slouching again. Shoulders back, mofo! Scaps down!
My mantra: Everyday do something to move the rehab forward.
@Crusher: Dood, watch out for those treadmills. Things will kick yer ass. Keep the faith. If anything, this thread is helping me get a sense for the long road we're on---but we can recover. Lots of proof here of that happening.
BAd
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crusher
climber
Santa Monica, CA
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Jan 18, 2016 - 04:42pm PT
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Ha ha BAd, I'm a "dudette" not a "dood" but thanks.
I always thought I had good posture but due to the tightness of the muscles up front from the various sports I've been involved in over the years apparently that isn't so. Plus WAY to much computer work and very difficult to get the desk/keyboard ergonomically correct especially since I'm only 5'1". Working on it.
What kind of massage did you have - deep tissue? ART?
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cyndiebransford
climber
Kenai Peninsula, Alaska
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Jan 20, 2016 - 04:38pm PT
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I have been suffering with shoulder pain for the past year. The pain is bad enough to stop me from going to yoga.I finally had an MRI with contrast of both shoulders. I have three tears in three different areas of my right shoulder, plus bone spurs and arthritis.
Today's appointment with the ortho to discuss my left shoulder MRI was informative. Moderate to high grade partial-thickness tears, bone spurs, thickening of the bursa and a small to moderate tear of the labrum.
End result; I got a shot of cortisone in the left and right shoulder.
I have gone to three different p/t clinics over the past year and have tried numerous anti-inflammatory medications to no avail.
Possibility of surgery to clean things up at a later date.
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Jan 20, 2016 - 05:57pm PT
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It occurs to me from some of the above discussion that those of you with shoulder problems who have never had surgery may have the impression that when you have a "rotator cuff tear", Or "Bicep tear", they go in there, put a few stitches in, and get out.
Here is an excerpt from the surgery report from my right shoulder surgery, done when I was 61:
Pre-op diagnosis (based on MRI): rotator cuff right shoulder with chronic impingement
Post-op diagnosis: Torn rotator cuff (full thickness tear), early arthritis glenohumeral joint, extensive synovitis and partial tear biceps tendon.
Operation performed:
1. Arthroscopy of glenohumeral joint
2. Extensive debridement of Synovitis, chondromalacia of the humeral head and glenoid socket and extensive debridement of partial thickness biceps tendon tear.
3. Arthroscopy of subacromia; bursa with acromioplasty and resection of coracoacromial ligament.
Arthroscopic repair of full-thickness rotator cuff tear, right shoulder.
This is followed by 2 pages of detailed description of how it looked and exactly what they did. Here are some salient excerpts:
"The humeral head had some grade 3 chondromalacia on the central aspect and posterior aspect, over a 2 x 2 cm area."
Grade 3 means it looked like shredded crabmeat.
"There was extensive synovitis. The chondromalacia was removed with a full-radius shaver, removing loose, unstable cartilage damage.”
Lots of other shaving went on in there.
So they clean out a giant amount of loose debris with the shavers and suction.
And then there is the bone shaving stuff that they do:
“There was considerable bony overhang anteriorly and laterally and the Mako high speed shaver was used to flatten the anterolateral and anterior edge of the acromion to a nice type 1 acromion.”
Then they sometimes cut off stuff that is too degraded to save and reattach it with anchors:
“”The edge of the tendon was taken back to some good healthy tissue…A medial anchor using a 2.4 mm Iconix anchor with a #2 high strength suture was placed lateral to the articulated surface. This was done by making a drill hole through a curved guide, tapping the anchor down into the bone…(suture Fu)…The anterior ones were placed in a 3.5 mm Piton anchor and tapped down lateral to the footprint. The anchor was deployed. The second anchor was used for (more suture Fu)…”
He decided just to clean up the biceps tendon, not to cut and reattach it, or there would have been more anchor madness and suture Fu.
Anyway, point is, by the time you have been having symptoms for a long time, there often is a lot of other cr@$ going on in there that PT and rest and NSAIDs don’t do anything about.
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cyndiebransford
climber
Kenai Peninsula, Alaska
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Jan 20, 2016 - 09:07pm PT
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Phylp, I get your point. I know that there is a lot going on in my shoulders and that surgery is in my future. I know it will not be a simple fix and that recovery will take time and effort on my part. I was not trying to trivialize shoulder injuries. Just adding that I am part of the crowd.
I don't climb any more. But, I do want to be able to kayak and do yoga, as well as sleep through the night without pain. I have a granddaughter due next month and I want to be able to hold her and love on her before I have surgery.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 21, 2016 - 06:27am PT
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Wow, Phillip, pretty intense. So what was the recovery process like--pain, time to get back to 100%, if you have. Currently I'm starting to see some improvement (crossed fingers). Hyper awareness of posture and the YTWL exercises seem to help. Stretching, too.
BAd
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Jan 21, 2016 - 07:23am PT
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Cyndie, my post was not directed at you. I completely sympathize about the night pain. That's the most wearing thing about RC injuries.
Really it was more to encourage people with long standing issues who have already done a lot of the right things (PT, rest, anti-inflammatories, wait and see) who are not sure surgery is worth it to understand why they might not be getting relief, and to see all the amazing things the surgeons do.
Bad, that is a hard question to answer. I'm sure it's different for different people.
Basically it's 6 months until you can climb again. Once you get the go ahead to climb it comes back very quickly. The most part difficult part initially is the night pain and difficulty sleeping for the first 6-10 weeks after the surgery. I think it's at ten weeks that they let you sleep without the damn sling. The night pain during that time is pretty bad.
My surgeon treats a lot of pro athletes so his philosophy is to start PT ASAP. I had that surgery on Oct 30 and started PT on 11/5. The PT is painful but not horrible. It is very time consuming, and is essential.
Gotta run... of to climb.
Phyl (Phyllis BTW)
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LilaBiene
Trad climber
Technically...the spawning grounds of Yosemite
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Jan 22, 2016 - 06:54pm PT
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My night pain BEFORE surgery was worse than post-surgery, although sleeping upright did get old really fast. (Well, the numbing catheter in my neck attached to a bowling ball of medication attached 24/7 for the first week wasn't terribly fun, either.) My physician (sports) had me doing PT within 24 hours to make sure that I didn't lose any range of motion -- and amazingly (to him, included) I didn't.
BUT, had I not had surgery, what I would have lost would not have been worth it. It wasn't possible to see the extent of damage from the imagery pre-surgery. In fact, my physician thought the repair was going to be a lot more straight-forward than it actually turned out to be. He said that once he got inside, he wasn't happy! All kinds of scar tissue to trim, completely ruptured rotator cuff, bicep torn half-way through and significant arthritis in the scapular (something or other) joint that had to be ground down.
I followed Phyl's sage advice from another thread -- for which I cannot thank her enough. I am 13 months out and still do my strengthening, scapular stabilization and other exercises. I can hang from a chin-up bar, something which took many months to accomplish, and sleep with my arms overhead. I was incredibly fortunate that I had an extremely dedicated PT that gave me exercises that complemented (rather than duplicated) muscles used in climbing and swimming, and boy did she make me howl and cry when she stretched my shoulder. But, I have full range of motion back, which is incredible given the damage I had done to my shoulder and the 4 months I avoided doing anything about it.
I still have some strange weak spots that I didn't have before, but I figure that between the specific exercises, swimming, shoveling and finally getting back on rock, this will all work itself out.
If you do opt for surgery, be fully committed to doing all of the PT work...it will be worth your while. :D
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 22, 2016 - 08:33pm PT
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Hey, Phyllis! Thanks. My BAd on the name. Avatar photo is so small, too! I, however, really am a steroid raging rodent.
BAd
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BrassNuts
Trad climber
Save your a_s, reach for the brass...
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Jan 23, 2016 - 09:23am PT
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I'm now 5 days out from left shoulder surgery - good times for sure ;-) What surprised me most about the process of getting to where I am today is how much damage was diagnosed once I finally decided to see my sports med doc...
I have had varying degrees of shoulder pain for at least the last 20 years of my 40 year climbing 'career'. I just figured each incident over time was a minor 'tweak' or some such thing, but I think it was just a continuous process of degredation... When my sports med Doc said it was time for an MRI and not a shot of cortisone in late November, I figured it might be worse than I thought. The MRI review was pretty sobering with 3 major tears, 2 minor tears, bony protrusions developed by abnormal tendon location etc etc.
The surgery was a hybrid scope/open procedure that took about 2.5 hours. 5 suture anchors were placed into the humeral head area to reattach the severely torn subscapularis and the shortened/relocated biceps tendon. The 'shredded' labrum along with the minor tears were cleaned up and bone was shaved off in a few areas. Post op has been going ok, follow up and stitch removal is next week. Prognosis is good but will be a long process with 'baby climbing' possible after 6 months.
Prior to surgery, I had my other (right) shoulder scanned as I figured it must have some damage as well, hopefully not as severe. The 2nd shoulder is indeed in need of repair with similar but slightly less severe issues, about 70% damage level compared to the first... So, I will likely have surgery number 2 in early May or so, once the first arm is functional.
It's gonna be a long road back but I'm trying to keep my eye on the Holy Grail that in 12 months or so hopefully both my shoulders feel better than they have in years :-) In the meantime, it's time to quit typing and drop another Oxycodon ;-)
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 27, 2016 - 06:16am PT
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Finally making some progress. Video up thread about posture and the YTWL exercises seem to help. Keep at it, folks.
BAd
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 7, 2016 - 06:13am PT
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Shoulder stoke bump. Keep at the PT, folks. I'm still getting better. This weekend, my 54th birthday, I confidently lead a 10c sport route in the Alabama Hills--NO shoulder issues. As the screen moniker indicates, I'm no superstar, and this is generally about as hard as I climb, although I occasionally flirt with 11a, tawdry, salacious little flings that they are. I expect to get back to that level over the next couple of months. I can now salute Hitler with no discomfort, and only in a tiny portion of full-range of motion do I get some pinching. I'm off to do some PT and workout right now. Keep the faith, climbers, and check yer knots.
BAd
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Great to hear! Thanks for the update.
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crusher
climber
Santa Monica, CA
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Good news BAd, keep moving!
I've cut down visiting the PT to once a month. Doing my PT exercises at home and my "regular" circuit training in the "regular" gym (vs. climbing gym). Trying to get to yoga at least once a week - that makes my shoulder (and everything else) sore but fortunately it wears off, so "normal" sore vs. "injury" sore.
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