Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
burp
Trad climber
Salt Lake City
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2006 - 03:28pm PT
|
Thanks Phil!
Thanks for all your hard work on this. My print came promptly and in impeccable condition. Beautiful!
Enjoy!
burp
|
|
Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2006 - 03:45pm PT
|
Personally, I'd like to see DadIsBad doing this...
-and less of his stunningly tactless posts above.
|
|
TradIsGood
Fun-loving climber
the Gunks end of the country
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2006 - 04:25pm PT
|
Matt, was this your post?
... the wounds were downplayed in press releases, etc., and reported to be away from major organs, but later causing an issue due to proximity to the heart, and the guy was/is in the ICU, hmmm.
cheney was kept from the local cops by the secret service, so no interview to determine 1st hand if anything fishy was up (cocktails, negligence, etc.)
cheney was hunting w/ some woman, not his wife, and neither cheney nor that woman has made any statement. (btw, that woman is the ambassador to somewhere, so naturally she is in a small hunting party on some private hunting ranch in texas w/ cheney, but not cheney's wife).
the eyewitness accounts have come from smeone who may have made conflicting statements, about any alcohol being present earlier in the day, and about what she did or did not see.
and of course, it took them a day to get the story out, 1st through the local press rather than the national media, and cheney hasn't uttered a single word on the subject.
Didn't think so.
A police officer at least according to two published sources, see also the Ely paper from the 18th, labelled the cause of the accident speed and inattentive driving. You realize that print media has deep enough pockets to worry about things like checking facts.
I did not post any third hand stories. I only pointed to the link of the story Werner posted. You have decided for yourself its relevance.
Those are facts.
So circle the wagons. Shoot the messenger. But the violence of the accident is clear from the facts. The cause may be uncertain to us, though probably less so to the the Nevada Highway Patrol.
I wish Bachar a swift recovery.
And that this thread returns to the topic of a fund-raising that appears to raise more questions than it provides answers.
|
|
Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2006 - 04:29pm PT
|
|
|
Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2006 - 04:35pm PT
|
|
|
Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2006 - 04:45pm PT
|
"Matt, was this your post?"
apples/oranges, as dick cheney doesn't read this forum, nor do his close personal friends.
(not to mention that i have a significant personal distaste for mr. dick cheney [who was out shooting cage raised foul in the 1st place] and i freely and openly admit same- and you, what is your beef? you just like being "holier than thou" when there is no need to say anything?)
"A police officer ... labelled the cause of the accident speed and inattentive driving"
what were you thinking he would write as the cause when someone drives off the road? failure to properly execute a proper barrel roll on the shoulder of hwy? unknown al queda cel placed IED? phantom chicken crossing?
you are a dipsh#t.
|
|
NeverSurfaced
Trad climber
Someplace F*#ked!
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2006 - 04:46pm PT
|
Russ & HK -
Thanks, couldn't find the words, but that'll do...
|
|
NeverSurfaced
Trad climber
Someplace F*#ked!
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2006 - 05:07pm PT
|
"A police officer ... labelled the cause of the accident speed and inattentive driving"
what were you thinking he would write as the cause when someone drives off the road? failure to properly execute a proper barrel roll on the shoulder of hwy? unknown al queda cel placed IED? phantom chicken crossing?
you are a dipsh#t.
HA HA HA
(Ah sh#t, now I feel bad for laughing at that - but it was damn funny!)
|
|
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2006 - 05:32pm PT
|
In a civil or criminal trial can a witness testify with their identity hidden?
Or use a phony name or disguise?
JDF
|
|
rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2006 - 08:35pm PT
|
This whole thing, and the way it's being dealt with is just vile. I can only imagine how warm and fuzzy J & A must be feeling.
Way to show how caring and concerned we are about our fellow climbers.
|
|
Raoul
climber
that nagging feeling in the back of your head
|
|
|
Oct 25, 2006 - 08:27am PT
|
That’s some imagination you got, stich. No, really, that’s quite creative. Y’all just keep guessing and when you get warm I’ll let you know. In the meantime, anonymity is my prerogative.
Keep deflecting this away from the real problem. And here I thought we were all talking about the same thing – seems there’s an additional problem in the mix - tgreene solicited funds for his move from BFE wherever to Louisiana (which is what I’m talking about), then solicited funds for his move from Louisiana to BFE wherever, and now he’s accepted $2500 from JB to pay for his issues again, all with the promise to repay. From what I read hasn’t done anything to make restitution for the first two (for those who expect to be paid back) so with such a shady a pattern of deception why wouldn’t people question?
Call him? This is my call. TG can come online and give a full disclosure for all three events. A lot of people have been affected – a lot are asking. For everyone’s sake, I’d be happy if he proved me wrong.
Maculated, what was that rumor I heard that you got screwed by someone the same way? Paid money for promises of stuff in return? Am I imagining that? ‘strue I’d think you’d be a little more sympathetic to folks finding themselves in the same sitchy-ation.
Bitter and vindictive? Heck no. I just get really pissed off when good people get taken advantage of.
Iffin I had a vote I’d sure like to see the $2500 from the Steve Karafa fund given tgreene go to Skinner’s kids. Bet they could use it. Out of deference to them and to JB as well, this is the last I'm saying on the matter.
|
|
maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 25, 2006 - 10:09pm PT
|
Hi gang,
I was in the Red last Wednesday when I found out that Tim had received money from the fund to offset his own medical expenses. Of course, I immediately called Bachar and asked him what was up. John told me that he was glad to be able to give Tim money from the fund ($2,500) that he didn't think he'd need. It was very clear to me that John willingly offered it to help out another climber in need and he was psyched to do it. That it was Tim, who organized of the raffle, that needed the funds can only be considered the closing of a Karmic cricle. I apologise to everyone out there that the sequence of passing these funds to Tim didn't conform to GAAP standards but John, as most climbers would, responded from the gut rather than from an accountant's or lawyer's POV. Thanks John.
Knowing that a sh*tstorm of biblical porportions (sorry Ron) was about to hit, I asked Tim to forward all the remaining funds in the account to John. He did so that afternoon (10/18) and emailed me a scan of the cashier's check.
He held out $226 to cover outgoing shipping expenses for all of the prizes.
I drew the prize numbers. I was on the phone with Tim when I did it and I used the random number generator at www.random.org. Tim had already withdrawn his numbers and I withdrew mine as well. Hell, I don't need any more gear, eh?
It's too bad that all this crap about Tim, true or not, has surfaced to cloud the effort that he and the climbing community has gone to to help JB. It simply wouldn't have happened--or even been imagined--without Tim's effort. It's been an astonishing outpouring of support for one of ours (a full-on hero at that) and I have a hard time imagining it occurring in any other world.
I am working with Phil at the American Alpine Club, Dave Talsky of Mammoth Mountaineering, and John to set up the official Steve Karafa Fund at the AAC. In the meantime, John has control of the funds and he can tap in to them as he sees fit because, despite having medical insurance, I know that he will have tons of medical expenses that are uncovered. After all, insurance compaines make their vig by collecting premiums and denying claims. I had great medical insurance when I had my accident in Alaska ([url]http://www.trango.com/pdfs/malacc.pdf[/url] yet I ended up owing $14,000 for PT. John won't know what all his expenses are for at least another 6 months. That's just the way to body heals and insurance companys deal.
Raoul, I'm sorry you're so bitter and I'm sorry for whatever it was that caused it. A sure panacea would be for you to organize your own fund raiser for some good cause that you identify with. Put your heart and soul into it. You'll be amazed at its curative powers.
dr_feelgood, PM me your address and I'll write you a check for $50 if it will help you heal.
For those of you complaining about the distribution of prizes, stop whining, enjoy the feeling of having given to a great cause and hope that the community gathers 'round when you need the help. If that doesn't work, post on this forum that you want your money back and why, and I'll cut you a personal check. Even though John has offered the same, there is no way that I'm going to ask him to return the money that has been donated to him. He may need it.
Here's the great thing. Between the different fundraisers that went down: Mammoth Mountaineering, Phil Bard, Karl Baba, Black Diamond's and Neptune's slide shows, etc, we raised around $30,000 to help John and to launch the Steve Karafa Fund. With some luck, John won't need too much of that money and we can seed the SK Fund with enough to significantly help other climbers when they are in need. Hell, we've already started.
Peace,
Mal
PS: I'm going to cross post this. I hated writing this and I can't do it again.
|
|
Mimi
climber
|
|
|
Oct 25, 2006 - 10:22pm PT
|
Thanks Mal for clearing this up. Please funnel some of the funds to Todd's family if you can.
Thanks for your hard work,
Mimi
|
|
maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 25, 2006 - 10:26pm PT
|
Mimi, they're not my funds to funnel. I've written them a check because it's a separate deal. If JB wants to send some of the funds up there, I'll stand behind him all the way.
Mal
|
|
Mimi
climber
|
|
|
Oct 25, 2006 - 10:41pm PT
|
Gotcha. I misread and thought you were involved with fund management. I'm confident JB will send money to Todd's family, so all is well under the current and recent events.
Sheesh!
|
|
couchmaster
climber
|
|
|
Oct 25, 2006 - 10:43pm PT
|
Quite the relief to hear it all Malcom. I'm sure I speak for everyone in saying that was an exellent post, and your work and efforts were and are appreciated by all of us.
|
|
immanti
climber
|
|
|
Oct 25, 2006 - 10:48pm PT
|
Hey Mal, thanks for posting that, hopefully it will help the nay-sayers move on to the next conspiracy.
I've kept quiet on this because I am close to JB, but I will say that it is a shame that some people choose to attempt to tarnish a good will, kind hearted effort the way they have, to the point of talking about "questionable circumstances", SPECIALLY when they didn't even contribute to the fund. SHAME.
Thanks again Mal, for all you've done, and thank you to all of you who've managed to keep your contributions positive.
D
|
|
Anastasia
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
|
|
|
Oct 26, 2006 - 12:28am PT
|
What is going on here? I am confused... How did this happen?
Let me state that if you need someone to hang then look at me.
I was the one who told the police what happened. The police report is based on my testimony. I was the one who held Steve as he died, no one else was there. Since I am also the one that told John what happened for he can't remember, "he had been knocked out..." The story about the accident comes from me. This includes all the repeats of the news about Steve's death over and over again because John couldn't remember five minutes after the telling. Note, the version is all mine since there are no other witnesses. This fact had the added benefit of watching John go through the shock of losing his best friend over and over again until his memory stabilized.
Don't forget that I am also the one that people called to ask if they should do a fund raiser. I was the one that gave them the go ahead. Also please note that at the time no one had an idea if John had insurance since he was too out of it to tell us.
I was also the one who thought that if we had any money left over after paying off the medical expenses that we shouldn't casually pocket the remaining funds. I thought that we should donate it to Steve's memorial fund.
Hang me for reaching out to Tim after hearing about his illness and offering help in Steve's name.
This is my fault. This is my problem.
Don't attack the man with the broken neck. Don't attack the one facing a stroke.
Since I am perfectly healthy and I don't need positive thoughts to get better... Since I am not too busy facing my health issues unlike the others who will not be emailing you because they are dealing with worse things , please pick on me.
If you think I am upset, you are right.
Yours truly,
Anastasia
|
|
NeverSurfaced
Trad climber
Someplace F*#ked!
|
|
|
Oct 26, 2006 - 12:40am PT
|
Anastasia sweetie, don't listen to any of these pricks. I know you're frustrated, but you know as well as any of us that you've done nothing to be blamed for. Unfortunately this is the kind of ugliness that a few anonymous pricks perpetrate to fell better about themselves.
I'm sorry you've got to deal with this. Take comfort in those who do care, and ignore the rest of the bullsh#t.
Chad.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Oct 26, 2006 - 12:52am PT
|
Anastasia
Just remember you are above all this, you did everything in your power with the best interests of all the others in need.
Rest assured that you did the right thing.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!