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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Dec 11, 2014 - 06:52pm PT
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Chris,
I like to come to this forum for many reasons but one feature that makes it fun is the way off topic discussions.
I really enjoy the people here. Even the ones that hate on me.
I care what the people here say on these odd topics.
Naturally not everyone feels this way and some people get way too serious and probably call you up to cry foul. You certainly don't deserve the grief.
For the ON TOPIC discussions this forum is one of the most authoritative sources in the world. You are totally ruling the "community" aspect of the old "Content, Community, Commerce" formula.
Thank you for maintaining this forum and putting up with the crap. I'd love to help you find ways to monitize this zoo.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Dec 11, 2014 - 07:10pm PT
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Hey PUD...
What's your opinion of Chuckwalla?
I say double thumbs up compared to Willow. Far more technical IMO.
I took some hot laps on the Chuckwalla course on an Aprilia RSV4 Factory and loved it! Nice elevations and smoooooth corners.
The guy that rode it right after me wadded that $40k machine high-siding it into turn one. Damn shame.
I've also ridden a RS125 around this track and found it to be really fun as long as you kept your momentum up.
I raced there on my R1 and did well.
Willow is a very old track and doesn't compare to Chuckwalla on many levels. Hell of a lot closer to home though.
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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Dec 11, 2014 - 07:20pm PT
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my two bits: make self-regulation easier, and at the same time be more specific in communicating st managements vision for the forum...
for example, here's one possible way:
1. make it so that all climbing threads are a different color than the ot ones... say red...
2. have a one line instruction on the top of the first page, something like: "If this page is more than 20% blue ot threads [or 30 or 40 or 50 or whatever the st mngmnt thinks is a good number] then please add to or start a red climbing thread"
i think you'd be surprised... there are a lot of people here who would support your idea of how you think this joint should be...
because as far as your original question of when does ot become so far off that it doesn't belong?
there is no good answer to this, because if there is, it means someone has to sit and f*#king moderate everything... and lord knows ain't nobody got time for that. especially you and/or your crew...
self-moderation is key for your own time input... that and the occasional hand of god deletion move, to keep the plebs on their toes... haha.
edit: also a +1 or +5 or wherever we are at for Big Mike's idea...
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 11, 2014 - 07:33pm PT
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This thread is OT and so far off from climbing stuff.
I'm calling Chris McNamara to tell him to ban the Original Poster (OP) of this thread ......
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
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Dec 11, 2014 - 07:47pm PT
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Werner wins the thread!
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Dec 11, 2014 - 07:52pm PT
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Chris: Thanks for the question. I tried to carefully work through all 94 responses, to date.
I've been on the forum since Nov. 2008. The forum has been a great resource for me and I've participated as fully as I want. (I believe I have been a good contributor.)
In the last two years, I have participated less, and I've seen other participants, whose thoughts & posts I enjoy, either drop out or post rarely.
My thoughts on the subject have mostly centered around the negative people on ST. I appreciate that many have been banned, with my regretting the passing of only a very-few.
I used to believe that ST would be best served by breaking the threads into two-streams. Political & Religious, and Climbing related.
I have now changed my mind.
I do look at politard threads fairly often, although I totally avoided the Ferguson thread and usually avoid the Climate Change thread, due to the acrimony that was and is the main features of those threads.
I confess to reading the “Why Republicans are Wrong” thread almost every day, and on occasion posting what I consider an “original-thought” on that thread.
Perhaps that is one of the problems with the political and religious threads? Many of those posting on those threads are just passing on thoughts they have copied from the internet.
And of course the personal attacks bother me.
I do agree with what ghost said:
I would love to be able to engage in off-topic discussions on all kinds of subjects, even including politics and religion, with most of the posters on this site.
But there are eight or ten people -- and we all know who they are -- whose idea of "discussion" is to scream "You're a f*#king as#@&%e, and everything you believe is not only stupid, but dead wrong." They ruin it for everyone else.
I guess my question to you, Chris, is why do you let that handful of people wreck things for everyone else? You know who they are, and you know that most of them don't post much climbing content, so why not give them one polite warning to stop ruining things for others, and just drop the axe if they don't heed you?
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Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
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Dec 11, 2014 - 08:05pm PT
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There's a lot to be said for the "wild wild west" style of this forum. I also prefer the concept of self regulation.
At one point I got all caught up in "political" threads. Too many personal attacks and disrespect eventually convinced me to stick to climbing content. I tried starting a "political" thread a few days ago and it went nowhere. Hey, I got the message.
I always get a positive response to my trip reports. It inspires me to go out and invent new adventures just so I can share with my ST friends.
Which reminds me, I gotta get out soon.
Stand by for epic adventures in Sedona.
Is it ok to post a biking related thread every once in a while????
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Dec 11, 2014 - 08:11pm PT
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Hey Chris
I used to be a member of the Joe Rogan board (lol I'm lame) and they had a system where a second room was put up where all the "OT" threads went, and anyone who was banned wouldn't get to post elsewhere. I think having a system where there's an OT tab would be great, and anyone who continues to post OT stuff in the climbing tab can only see the OT tab. Might be too tricky but will allow those who just can't help themselves to have a room to yell in without having to ban people constantly - people who tend to find a way back anyway.
Just my .02, I'm a dork that's been around messageboards for a while and have seen some stuff that I thought worked. All the best.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Dec 11, 2014 - 08:22pm PT
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I say leave it alone, it is a camp fire. Kinda scary that I agree with Ron.
Don't leave the camp fire burning dimmer than when you found it
It is okay to throw a log on the fire, problem is when some dipsh1t throws gasoline in.
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Braunini
Big Wall climber
cupertino
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Dec 11, 2014 - 08:30pm PT
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There's a lot to be said for the "wild wild west"
Thank you for not saying campfire
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Outside the Asylum
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Dec 11, 2014 - 08:46pm PT
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Chris, it's not off-topic threads that drive me and perhaps others away. It's the hateful posters. Bullies. Misogynists. Narcissists. In a few cases, racists. Crackpots and extremists galore. Those whose main purpose is to cause offence. People who would never say the things they do here in an environment in which they would be held accountable, i.e. around a campfire. They need to be held accountable here for their behaviour.
If you purged them on a periodic basis, the forum would be more welcoming.
Dividing the forum into two (actually three) public tabs - trip reports, general climbing discussion, and non-climbing - might also be worth a try. You'd need to be clear as to what is meant by general climbing discussion, and perhaps firmer in keeping things there on track.
If all the conspiracy theory, extreme right wing, and global warming denier type posters and threads disappeared, no one would miss them. Reasoned discussion of science, politics, religion and current affairs may have an (off topic) place. It's something that intelligent climbers often do. Allowing that to be drowned by the crackpots doesn't serve anyone.
ps Eric's idea of limiting all posters to say 20/day is also worth considering, although it may be a challenge to control those with multiple posterality disorder.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Dec 11, 2014 - 08:52pm PT
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Chris: One other thought on OT threads. Those that post an OT thread that is obviously intended to provoke aggressive comments, should also be excluded from the forum.
A good example is Ron Anderson. I do like much of what Ron is and posts, but he starts more "In your face" threads than anyone else.
Per his earlier post on this thread:
Weve had this conversation before CMac, and I have indeed cut down my OT threads by about 80%. My last one being "Watch the liar" about recent immigration issues that affect us all. It went to over 200 replies in no time
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Dec 11, 2014 - 08:53pm PT
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I think people complaining that the forum sucks and that there's too much OT stuff brings the place down more than the OT stuff itself.
It's all good, I don't know enough to form an opinion on the tabs thing or which OT threads don't belong...
Edit: A "like" button to bump trip reports would be cool, but that's not really what you're asking about...
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Dec 11, 2014 - 08:55pm PT
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Chris McNamara asked:
Does the inherent partisan nature of the topic simply beg people to fall into name calling and personal attacks (which is the worst of the forum from many people's point of view, mine included).
atchafalaya said in post #4:
The problem is not the subject matter or topic.
Name calling and personal attacks happen in climbing threads, too. Name calling and personal attacks are stupid and can hurt or cause alarm and the occasional poster should be banned. That seems the only cure for that problem.
Milder OT content displacing climbing is a different problem. I don't know what bugs people about threads they aren't interested in, but if tabs would clear the air for them, why not do it?
Let's be clear that butt plugs and Da Brim are grandfathered into climbing content, though.
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MisterE
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Dec 11, 2014 - 08:58pm PT
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Chris, it's not off-topic threads that drive me and perhaps others away. It's the hateful posters. Bullies. Misogynists. Narcissists. In a few cases, racists. Crackpots and extremists galore. Those whose main purpose is to cause offence. People who would never say the things they do here in an environment in which they would be held accountable, i.e. around a campfire. They need to be held accountable here for their behaviour.
I agree with this part of Anders post, but not the separate tabs bit.
I, too, like the wild west non-tabs aspect - and it is probably a pain in the ass to monitor what goes where with the tabs, as well.
Once the monitoring starts...
Russ had a funny interaction with Moosedrool about a 30-inane-post-a-day limit that really seemed reasonable and somehow relevant...
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Brian
climber
California
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Dec 11, 2014 - 09:03pm PT
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Chris, it's not off-topic threads that drive me and perhaps others away. It's the hateful posters. Bullies. Misogynists. Narcissists. In a few cases, racists. Crackpots and extremists galore. Those whose main purpose is to cause offence. People who would never say the things they do here in an environment in which they would be held accountable, i.e. around a campfire. They need to be held accountable here for their behaviour.
If you purged them on a periodic basis, the forum would be more welcoming.
Dividing the forum into two (actually three) public tabs - trip reports, general climbing discussion, and non-climbing - might also be worth a try. You'd need to be clear as to what is meant by general climbing discussion, and perhaps firmer in keeping things there on track.
If all the conspiracy theory, extreme right wing, and global warming denier type posters and threads disappeared, no one would miss them. Reasoned discussion of science, politics, religion and current affairs may have an (off topic) place. It's something that intelligent climbers often do. Allowing that to be drowned by the crackpots doesn't serve anyone.
Amen!
A-fecking-men
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John M
climber
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Dec 11, 2014 - 09:08pm PT
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do OT threads have some sort of Svengali-like, mesmerizing power that hypnotizes people and draws them in?
nope.. I believe what people are saying is that because of how the forum is formatted, the front page gets dominated by inflammatory threads because they receive a lot of posts. So those who primarily want climbing have to dig and search for climbing topics. These guys don't spend loads of time here, so the climbing threads drop back very fast. Russ' climbing topic on SAR is one recent example. Those threads don't get lots of post, so they drop back quickly. One solution is one I have been advocating for years. RyanD also suggested it on the first page of this thread.
Leave the main page of the forum the same. ( for those who like it the way it is )
Create a climbing topics tab like the trip reports tab. Put all climbing topics in there, but also leave them on the main page like trip reports are handled. Then everyone gets what they want. The main page stays the same, but there is an area where most of the off topics are filtered out.
The issue with that becomes deciding what is a climbing topic. But it wouldn't need that much policing. Once every few weeks just move the threads that don't belong.
The bigger issue to me is what Ghost and others have said. The few people whose primary form of communication is insults. They can dominate a good conversation and often destroy it.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
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Dec 11, 2014 - 09:08pm PT
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Specifically, do blatantly political threads like "Why Republicans are wrong..." belong on SuperTopo? The political threads used to run rampant, but a few years ago there was a concerted effort to limit the noise to just 2 or 3 mega topics. This was not mandated by admin, and I avoid those threads like the plague anyway. A type of forum cleansing would be a disaster IMO - don't try to reinvent the wheel.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Dec 11, 2014 - 09:09pm PT
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Ghost pretty much sums up my thoughts on the current situation:
"I would love to be able to engage in off-topic discussions on all kinds of subjects, even including politics and religion, with most of the posters on this site.
But there are eight or ten people -- and we all know who they are -- whose idea of "discussion" is to scream "You're a f*#king as#@&%e, and everything you believe is not only stupid, but dead wrong." They ruin it for everyone else.
I guess my question to you, Chris, is why do you let that handful of people wreck things for everyone else? You know who they are, and you know that most of them don't post much climbing content, so why not give them one polite warning to stop ruining things for others, and just drop the axe if they don't heed you?"
Word.
Or,as atchafalaya said:
The problem is not the subject matter or topic.
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HermitMaster
Social climber
my abode
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Dec 11, 2014 - 09:13pm PT
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There are those that will say the "rectal hydration" thread is too off topic for a climbing forum. But, honestly I laughed like hell.
From my experience, it is the perfect campfire discussion....
In all honesty, I think the forum needs a bit more moderation rather than banning topics and users. I think you are going in the wrong direction with that policy. Getting rid of people and deleting all their posts is not a good thing to do on a regular basis. IMHO
Rather, if people think you are watching over them, and they know that an inappropriate post will get cited as "post deleted", then people will slowly learn who is doing it, and what is tolerable and what isn't.
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