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KP Ariza
climber
SCC
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Sep 13, 2014 - 02:01pm PT
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Deuce,
I brought the subject of the Killer Pillar up, which led to the white noise. For that I apologize.
Dimitri, you did the FA of Wicked Gravity fair and square. How's that? Where my problem lies is when you start up with personal attacks. Calling me a liar and saying I did not climb something that I 100% did. That just plain sucks.
Sumner, any missed decade of climbing is a bummer, Oh, and for the record, never much cared for tights.
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 13, 2014 - 02:24pm PT
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Re; Dimitri and Ken: I guess I can see how it would irk--I did a FA of a route on Devil's Tower--with a woman who was a ranger at the time, and thought it had been recorded. Then I saw it credited to others who climbed it a few years later and renamed "A Bridge Too Far". But in the larger scheme of things, what climbing has provided to the soul and character--the "credit" for the climb seems a bit less important, no?
I'm starting to see my journey of climbing as a path, which was full of pitfalls on the sides of the path, the ego draws us to the pitfalls. Sometimes I fell victim to the pitfalls, but mostly I found a nice path that led me to something that's helped me on the larger path of life. This thread reminds me of that time long ago--the good and the not-so-good; thanks to all for that.
One thing I recall for sure: in Werner's maroon LeMans the path was always straight ahead!
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KP Ariza
climber
SCC
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Sep 13, 2014 - 02:41pm PT
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Well said.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Sep 13, 2014 - 02:59pm PT
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Think Mid-Life Crisis on the Royal Arches Apron has to be spring (March-April) of 1988, just before Escape from Freedom on Mt Watkins. Personnel: Me, Dave Yerian, Merry MacGrath (later Braun), Mike Hernandez, and for the last pitch, Urmas Franosch. A partner-per-pitch kinda climb.
But as one wag suggested above, a FA list doesn't tell half the story of the 1980s, because different strong personalities put their stamp on the era in their own characteristic ways.
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nah000
climber
canuckistan
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Sep 13, 2014 - 03:16pm PT
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i'm no authority, but to hopefully help keep the ball rolling, i'll lob an outsider's view of the 1980's yosemite defining themes and players into the mix:
plateauing of hard free climbing:
1980: cosmic debris, bill price, 13b. likely second hardest roped climb in the u.s. at this time.
1986: the renegade aka the stigma, watts + skinner, 13b/c
1987: machine gun, scott cosgrove, 13c?
[awa suzuki, croft, kauk, smith and ...]
a culmination in hard ground-up free climbing:
1981: bachar/yerian, 11c r/x
1986: karma, schultz/yager/campbell, 11d a0 r
1988: southern belle, cosgrove/schultz, 12d r
[awa smith and ...]
continued evolution of big wall free climbing including the beginning of siege tactics:
1980: hall of mirrors, burke/cantwell + austin/morris, 12c
1988: salathe wall, piana/skinner, 13b
continued [r]evolution in free soloing:
1986: separate reality, wolfgang gullich, 12a
1987: astroman, peter croft, 11c
1987: link up of astroman and the rostrum, peter croft, 11c
[awa bachar, schultz, braun, and ...]
continued evolution of speed climbing including the beginning of big, fast link-ups:
1980-89: the nose speed record incrementally reduced from sub 13 hrs to sub 10hrs, schultz/middendorf then chrichtley/vogler then bachar/croft then bongard/vogler
1986: first half dome and el cap in a day [14 hrs?], bachar/croft
1989: first nose solo in a day [21:22], steve schneider
continued evolution of big wall aid climbing:
too esoteric for me to have any idea regarding high water marks but beyer, bridwell, kohl, grossman, middendorf, shipley, and ... are just a few that likely factor in ...
continued evolution of big wall aid climbing by women:
1985: ribbon falls dyslexia, ellie hawkins, 10d a4
[awa harrington, freer, and ...]
continued evolution of bouldering
1984: thriller, ron kauk, v9
fecundity:
1980-89: tucker tech's 130+ fas
bolts, ground up, "trad" vs "sport" and other stylistic drama:
1982: wings of steel, jensen/smith
1986: the renegade aka the stigma, watts + skinner, 13b/c
1988: punchline, ron kauk, 12c
1988: salathe wall, piana/skinner, 13b
personalities:
1981: bachar's $10k soloing challenge
1988: the bachar, kauk, chapman brouhaha
braun, walling, yosar, etc. and etc. and etc. ...
[the above etc. and etc. and etc. is where i'm sure the real meat of this story lies...]
edit:
 added gullich's free solo [thanks to Hartouni's list below] as well as nose and schneider speed climbs.
added hall of mirrors, and machine gun free climbs.
added thriller boulder problem
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mooser
Trad climber
seattle
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Sep 13, 2014 - 03:32pm PT
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But then I see this nitpicky age-old battle taking over the thread. Maybe Bob DA is right. But somehow I don't recall it that way.
The virtual shouting match, yes...the subject of the shouting match, no.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Sep 13, 2014 - 04:14pm PT
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from this thread:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1743638
1980
John Bachar solos Nabisco Wall: Waverly Wafer 5.10c, Butterballs 5.11c and Butterfingers 5.11a
Bill Price FA Cosmic Debris 5.13a
Tony Yaniro FA Alien 5.12c
Chris Cantwell, Scott Burke, Scott Cole FA Hall of Mirrors 5.12c
Max Jones and Mark Hudon FFA Pegasus (North Face of Quarter Dome) 5.12
1984
Ron Kauk climbs Thriller
Alan Lester and Pat Adams climb Salathe Wall in one and a half day freeing more pitches than previous ascents
Dave Schultz FFA Lost Arrow Tip 512b
1985
John Middendorf, Charles Coe and Rusty Reno FA of Autobahn, 5.11d
Kim Carrigan and Geoff Wigand FA of America's Cup, 5.12b
Kim Carrigan FFA linking the Rostrum, 5.12b
Todd Skinner FFA of Renegade (nee Stimga) 5.13b
Jerry Moffat and Ron Kauk FFA of Lost Arrow Spire, 5.12b
Peter Croft solos North Face of the Rostrum 5.11c
Peter Croft FFA of Crucifix 5.12b
1986
John Bachar FA of Dale's Pin Job 5.13a
John Bachar FA of Phantom 5.13a
Werner Braun and Scott Cosgrove FA of Power Point 5.11c
John Bachar and Peter Croft climb The Nose and the Regular Northwest Face of Half Dome in a day
Yuji Hirayama redpoints Phoenix and Cosmic Debris, 5.13a
Wolfgang Gullich solos Separate Reality 5.12
1987
Peter Croft solos Astroman
Peter Croft FA Excellent Adventure 5.13c
Peter Croft climbs Cosmic Debris
Peter Croft solos Fish Crack
Kurt Smith and Scott Cosgrove FA Cookie Monster 5.12a
Kurt Smith and Dave Hattchel FA General Dynamics 5.13a
Scott Burke and Jeff Folett FA Tour de Force 5.12b
Steve Schneider and Romain Vogler climb The Nose and West Face of El Cap in a day
Scott Cosgrove FA Machine Gun 5.13c
Hidetaka Suzuki FA Title Fight 5.13a
Hidetaka Suzuki FA Casablanca 5.13a
Stefan Glowacz attempts FFA of Salathé Wall
Walt Shipley and Dave Schultz FA Southern Belle 5.11 A0
Randy Leavitt and Rob Slater FA Scorched Earth VI 5.11 A5
Walt Shipley and Troy Johnson FA Native Sun A4+
John Barbella and Eric Brandt FA Heartland
1988
Ron Kauk FA Punchline 5.12b resulting ethics/style debate leads to Camp 4 fist fight between Mark Chapman and John Bachar
Walt Shipley and Kevin Fosburg FA of complete Sentinel Falls ice
Kurt Smith and Ken Ariza FA Keeper of the Flame 5.13a
Todd Skinner and Paul Piana FFA Salathé Wall
Dave Schultz and Scott Cosgrove FFA Southern Belle V 5.12b
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 13, 2014 - 04:15pm PT
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Hi Bruce, good reminder. I don't think we ever met, I recall you as a bonafide local, but a bit on the fringe of the local scene. I think it was because of your mastery and main focus being lower angle climbs, which (like wall climbing) was a bit out of fashion during that time.
But when I did a subsequent ascent of the rarely travelled "Golden Dawn" on Watkins, I fully understood how that style of climbing, bold and in a majestic place, was incredibly worthy of the experience (I just looked, and I don't really see any information about that route on the internet--what a hidden classic!).
It was always a bit odd to me, as that style of climbing was ultra-well respected in Tuolumne (thinking of new routes on Fariview), but in the Valley lacking full respect. Like those testpieces on Glacier Point, which are likely bad-ass in the fullest.
As you say,: a FA list doesn't tell half the story of the 1980s, because different strong personalities put their stamp on the era in their own characteristic ways. Exactly, there's a lost story there that's never been fully shared.
nah000--great outline--probably Morris's contributions should be in there too, as another "Games Climbers Play" category. Probably also the bouldering category, which had its own list of masters who fully contributed to the vibe. It's a good list of some key events and has good triggers for the larger "story" that drove the passion and the atmosphere.
Ed H. --Thanks for all the lists--you were there that whole time, no? Can you remind me what you were up to back then?
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Rollover
climber
Gross Vegas
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Sep 13, 2014 - 04:31pm PT
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Thank you for the lists Ed!!
Minor correction.. 4:22 on the Nose was 1992.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Sep 13, 2014 - 04:43pm PT
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I was a graduate student/post-doc/assistant professor on the East Coast during the 1980s. Climbing in the 'Gunks and New Hampshire and occasionally in California.
The lists are compilations from the guidebook histories, Pat Ament's great history, Climbing, Mountain and the AAJ as well as some private correspondence.
I didn't wear lycra climbing back then...
This collection of lists is the result of a rather large project I'm involved in....
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Sep 13, 2014 - 05:52pm PT
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This really does make me feel like I was back there again! But even with all the squabbles, I thing Deuce is right, it was a distinct time with a distinct vibe. Maybe crusher will recount his lawn chair/claw hammer ascent of the PO, in a storm! Or there's fusses story of yahoo having to have his Spider-Man T shirt to lead "the most exposed pitch in North American mountaineering" on the Na.
I met Walt, Deuce, Maysho, Swilliam, Cosgrove, Schnieder and many others there in the eighties. I already knew Piana & Skinner from the seventies in Laramie. But it was in the eighties when they created controversy in the valley ( and not just when Todd got busted for using an electric toaster in the men's room in camp four). This is a pretty good cast of characters that was fractal of the scene at the time.
And that's just the valley. There were other scenes I was involved with to various degrees that mushroomed in the eighties; Vedauwoo, Devil's Tower, Arizona ( the golden age of Zonerland! Then when we got kicked out of there, queen creek the mine, the pit, priest draw et al) Utah (indian creek, American fork, sport climbs in big and litte, heavy Zion big wall action etc)
It was both a renasance and progressive, time. There was cool sh#t going on Everywhere!!
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Sep 13, 2014 - 07:49pm PT
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Xaiver Bongart ?Solo Jolly Roger? when?
Then some thing that this thread has not said.
from '80 on lots of very good climbers snuck in, did their thing
and did more than just survive;
The point is you guys were full on, an intimidating crew in charge,Some times though misdeeds,
charging up climbs in intimidating ways and setting a new pace every other month,
or so it seemed.
Along the lines of what the Canadian Knight, Tami, has said.
We hung together apart in our own crews, and avoided the locals.
It seemed, the better part of valor, was to not let anyone know what we did.
We did not spray... Just climbed really hard.
What's this ? Awe ...what Jaybro said.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Sep 13, 2014 - 09:12pm PT
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Yos Big Wall Routes
1987
Luminescent Wall VI 5.10b A4 FA Walt Shipley, John Barbella
Native Son VI 5.9 A4 FA Walt Shipley, Troy Johnson
Scorched Earth VI 5.11 A4 FA Rob Slater, Randy Leavitt
The Big Chill VI 5.9 A4 FA Jim Bridwell, Peter Mayfield, Sean Plunkett...
Heartland VI 5.10 A4+ FA Eric Brand, John Barbella
1988
Turkey Shoot V 5.9 A3 FA Steve Bosque, Ken Yager
Octopussy VI 5.9 A3+ FA Dan and Sue McDevitt
Central Scrutinizer VI 5.11c A4+ FA Steve Grossman, Jay Ladin
White Room VI 5.10 A4 FA Walt Shipley, Sean Plunkett
Waterfall Wall VI 5.9 A4+ FA Rick Sylvester, Chauncey Parker
Via sin Liquor VI 5.9 A4 FA Eric Kohl, Alan Humphrey
Horni-Johnson VI 5.7 A3+ FA Jeff Hornibrook, Troy Johnson
Bad Seed VI 5.9 A4 FA Bill Russell, Troy Johnson
Love Without Anger V 5.8 A3 FA Steve Bosque, Rich Albuschkat
1989
Genesis VI 5.10 A4 FA Doug Englekirk, Eric Brand,
Dante's Inferno VI 5.9 A3 FA Eric Kohl
High Plains Dripper VI 5.11 A5 FA Eric Kohl, Alan Humphrey
Bananarama V 5.10a A3 FA Rich Albuschkat, Steve Bosque, Murray...
The Promised Land VI 5.10 A4 FA. Troy Johnson, Jeff Hornibrook, Kevin Fosburg...
The Jet Stream VI 5.9 A4 FA Sean Plunkett, Bill Russell
Flashback V 5.8 A3 FA Steve Bosque, Rich Albuschkat
Kali Yuga VI 5.10 A4 FA John Middendorf, Walt Shipley
Wheel of Torture VI 5.7 A4 FA Eric Kohl
Aqua Vulva VI 5.10 A4 FA Eric Kohl, John Middendorf
Toxic Waste Dump VI 5.8 A3+ FA Eric Kohl
Shadows VI A5 FA Jim Bridwell, Cito Kirkpatrick, Charlie Row, Billy...
Reach for the Sky VI 5.11 A4+ FA Jim Beyer
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Sep 13, 2014 - 10:29pm PT
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I was born down in Visalia in the 80's. Did you guys hear about that when you were up in the valley? It was a pretty big deal.
One of my few trips to the Valley was with Larry Zulim and Dan Dillinges, they had a lot of funny stories. Sounded like an entertaining decade.
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Sep 13, 2014 - 10:35pm PT
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I'm very far removed from being even closely a climber of the ranks of anyone mentioned here. But, I am a very fortunate soul to have met and to know many here (30+ of them), and know and fondly recall the moments back on the ground - Camp, the mountain room, the deli, etc. I especially miss the "potluck" dinners at Grant's tailgate with cans of garbanzo beans, tuna, sour cream, and frisbees for plates. And, "the can." Who was it that thew a small rock toward a parking lot ground squirrel and unintentionally killed it?
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Sep 13, 2014 - 11:00pm PT
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I didn't mean that Mid-Life Crisis was a real "significant" route in terms of climbing accomplishments during the 80s, Kevin. All I was doing was correcting some FA info in Ed's list of FAs by year. Mid-Life is certainly no Southern Belle!
You're right Deuce about "Golden Dawn" really being a Meadows-type route. You approach it from the Meadows and you return to the Meadows after you've done it. Nice one-day adventure, but Escape from Freedom is a much more serious engagement and still hasn't had a on-sight continuous free ascent.
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KP Ariza
climber
SCC
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Sep 14, 2014 - 12:17am PT
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Scott Burke was all eighties. One talented dude. Let's nots forgets.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Sep 14, 2014 - 09:14am PT
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Speaking of Scott Burke, has 'Friday the 13th' over on Royal Arches Apron ever seen a repeat? I've looked over at it from the side and it certainly seemed as intimidating as GBG. Saw some back-off slings, but never any climbers on it. I guess it's 'only a slab' . . .
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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Sep 14, 2014 - 10:03am PT
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The sixties and seventies seem well understood and well documented, but not so with the 80's, or not to my knowledge.
Wait, I thought it was the 70's that was misunderstood. Remember when Doug Robinson suggested everybody just climb to climb and quit recording all of it? That didn't work! Sorry to keep bringing it up Doug.....your heart was in the right place!
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