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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Sep 12, 2014 - 04:11am PT
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Fascinating stuff; both the OP presentation and the ancillary discussions generated. Thanks for bringing this up!
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 12, 2014 - 08:11am PT
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I mentioned there's a notable "cartoon gap" between orthodox and heterodox tectonic camps, the former have far more artists and textbook developers entrained. So this thread has not been very colorful so far. Published articles have plenty of graphics but those tend to be pdf format and often black and white, so it's not just grab-and-paste for me to bring them here.
Here's one orienting image, though, from an older paper, An Alternative Earth (GSA Today 2003 -- the link goes to the pdf file, not paywalled). The caption describes some dynamics: Pacific shrinking by hinge rollback, but with internal spreading as upper mantle is pushed back. The orange "age" bands correspond to when the Emperor/Hawaii chain (faintly visible in the green area at top center) changed direction about 45 million years ago, so we see that this bend *could not* have resulted from a change in Pacific plate direction, hence that can't really be a fixed hotspot as so many textbooks proclaim (and see illustrations that I posted upthread).
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 12, 2014 - 08:19am PT
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Here's another illustration from An Alternative Earth. Note the vertical sinking (pulled by gravity) of the slab's leading edge, which displaces upper mantle to the left as it sinks, and pulls in the overriding plate to the right (causing different kinds of extension stress in both directions).
In contrast, the standard model -- see the forward motion of the slab's leading edge, presumed to be pushed by upwelling somewhere behind. And of course there's that fixed hotspot again.
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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Sep 12, 2014 - 08:30am PT
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Tradster, thanks I was wondering about the density change that would allow that slab to sink. Does he propose some kind of greenschist phase metamorphism at the boundary that permeates through the slab before full scale melting takes place? Trying to get my head around the change in mineral assemblages and the proper pressure and temperature regimes, as well as time frame, needed to make that happen.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 12, 2014 - 08:37am PT
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Yet another trouble is that if you imagine the hotspots are fixed with respect to the mantle, they should be fixed relative to each other too -- and that just doesn't work.
Nothing seems to be really "fixed" but you need a reference frame to even talk about this issue. An alternative possibility is to view Antarctica as "fixed" which makes at least some sense because it is ringed by spreading ridges. And if we switch to an Antarctic-fixed reference framework the other plates' relative motions meet predictions from the alternative tectonic model.
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Grippa
Trad climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Sep 12, 2014 - 08:49am PT
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sorry im late to the party...
Chileo - the Hawaiian theory distills down to the very old oceanic crust peeling away in a semi-circular fashion? Tearing open the crust at multiple points allowing for adiabatic melt to occur? Would then the yellowstone hotspot be the result of frequent if not constant, in the geologic sense, disruption and heating of the continental crust. the subsequent heating, and explosive eruptions from the silicic magma would result in a weaker/thinner crust near the hot spot perpetuating the adiabatic process?
super fun topic thanks for bring up!
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 12, 2014 - 09:25am PT
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Grippa, glad you're enjoying this. I want to keep emphasizing that I don't hold the answers but am channeling smarter people, in the sense that I've been following their discussions for a while.
Regarding Yellowstone, that has conventionally been cited as another fixed, deep-mantle hotspot manifestation like Hawaii. But also like Hawaii, this theory falls apart when viewed closely, and evidence points to shallow origins instead. Foulger has a detailed web page about Yellowstone with maps, diagrams and links.
Tomography reveals a low-wave-speed body beneath Yellowstone that does not extend deeper than ~ 200 km (Figure 3) [Christiansen et al., 2002]. At these depths, bodies greater than ~ 70 km in size horizontally, with anomalies stronger than ~ –1%, can be resolved. Beneath the ESRP a similar structure is detected, that is flanked by high-wave-speed bodies up to 200 km wide to the northwest and southeast. This is not what is predicted if the ESRP and flanking topographic swell represent a trailing plume head [Humphreys et al., 2000].
Whole-mantle tomography shows that Yellowstone lies at a profound lithospheric structural discontinuity where the Basin-& Range region to the southwest abuts the North American craton to the northeast. There is no significant low-wave-speed anomaly either in the lower mantle or the lower part of the upper mantle. In fact, wave-speeds are anomalously high in the lower half of the upper mantle.
Or here's a shorter explanation of how we know Yellowstone is not a mantle plume, from Hamilton's GSA 2007 paper Driving mechanism and 3-D circulation of plate tectonics (pdf, not paywalled).
The east-northeastward progression of late Neogene volcanic centers in the eastern Snake River Plain and Yellowstone region is an anchor for advocates of fixed plumes. Nevertheless, the thermal anomalies, as constrained by high-resolution tomography, are confined to the upper mantle (Humphreys et al., 2000). Plume proponents Waite et al. (2006) made a detailed tomographic study with local seismic arrays and also found no evidence for low velocities deeper than 400 km. A series of magmatic centers that progress west-northwestward into Oregon from the same origin during the same period, and that display a more regular time-distance progression, commonly is ignored by plume proponents because it does not “fit,” although plume advocate Jordan (2005) speculated that the aberrant trend formed by long-distance squirting from the fixed Yellowstone plume.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 12, 2014 - 10:02am PT
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I suspect this supercontinent cycle is in need of a fresh paint job?
Arguably there is no clear evidence that plate tectonics operated at all, before about 1 Ga or even 650 Ma. Some rocks that were thought to represent such are very unlike modern counterparts and could be explained by other processes. For back story on this contrarian view see the Tectonophysics paper here.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 12, 2014 - 10:42am PT
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Well, the complaint goes the other way too -- much of the modeling work to date has been unphysical, not constrained by observational geology. People get an idea of what they want the model to do, like blow thin plumes up from deep mantle, then figure out what assumptions they need to make that happen.
It gets stranger with other planets, more about that later.
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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Sep 12, 2014 - 10:51am PT
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Here's another paper to throw into the mix. I hope to read it and the W Hamilton paper posted above as time permits.
Some questions to ponder...
Do Top down or Bottom up processes drive plate motion & volcanism?
Does the sinking slab penetrate into the lower mantle (deeper than 660 km)?
How much melt really exists in LIPs (large igneous provinces)?
What is the spatial resolution of deep seismic tomography?
The Eclogite Engine: Chemical geodynamics as a Galileo Thermometer
Don L Anderson
http://www.mantleplumes.org/P%5E4/P%5E4Chapters/AndersonP4AcceptedMS.pdf
Because these questions are so multi-disciplinary and about deep, inaccessible regions of the planet, they will be hotly (no pun intended) debated as long as there are earth scientists around to debate them. There is no simple right or wrong answer to these questions...
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 12, 2014 - 11:11am PT
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Thanks, tt. And I noticed this followup (not paywalled) to your Anderson chapter, in which he responds to a critic. In the quote below, I've bolded one part that indirectly refers to a problem with over-simplified models. The statements about blobs have abundant seismic evidence, we can see those things.
Much of the upper mantle is cooled from below, by bottomed out slabs, and cooled from within, by delaminating blobs. These blobs are colder than ambient mantle but hotter than slabs; they may contain most of the radioactivity of the upper mantle. They are constantly sinking and rising, delivering heat to the surface. The temperature of the surrounding mantle is buffered by the melting temperatures of the low-melting constituents as well as by the near-constant temperature of the lower continental crust. A partially molten asthenosphere, or one with partially molted blobs, cannot be treated as a homogeneous subsolidus ideal fluid; melting anomalies have other causes than high absolute temperature.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 12, 2014 - 12:22pm PT
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FM, in that first paper you cite I think we're seeing the other side of the 2 Earth views that Anderson talks about.
no more need to invoke comets as primary sources for earth's water!
But incidentally in both Anderson and Korenaga we see reference to planetary analogues, which are interpreted differently but inform everyone's thinking. That's why it should be fun to take this thread there too.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 12, 2014 - 12:38pm PT
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...but only as an end member, chiefly to pin down what "tectonically dead" looks like.
There's an opposite view that is dominant among planetologists, actually. And an opposite to that opposite, it gets surprising.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 12, 2014 - 01:24pm PT
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Did you see The Europa Report (free on Netflix)? Fiction but cool.
I watched a slightly less fictional documentary last night that toured planets and moons. Resurfacing of various kinds on Io, Europa, Triton and some others. But most dramatic sight is Miranda which looks like it was blasted to pieces, then glommed randomly back together by gravity.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 12, 2014 - 08:20pm PT
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I hadn't heard the name Verona Rupes but did notice that huge notch at the bottom of my global Miranda pic, thanks Op.
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perswig
climber
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Sep 13, 2014 - 05:05am PT
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Planetology... a field populated by earth scientists who said, "Fukkit, this is too hard."
Made me laugh!
Bump for some light reading ideas and ST getting its geek on.
Dale (understanding mebee every 12th word, but fascinated nonetheless)
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 14, 2014 - 12:59pm PT
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Should be interesting ... session planned for meetings of the American Geophysical Union in San Francisco this December (emphasis added):
Theory of Earth
Session ID#: 3924
Over the last 50 years, our understanding of the interior of Earth has advanced tremendously, yielding theories for its origin, evolution, internal structure, composition, and dynamics. Most powerful are interdisciplinary approaches that include physics, geophysics, energetics, thermodynamics, geochemistry, petrology, mineralogy, mantle dynamics, and volcanology. Nevertheless, persistent enigmas and paradoxes testify that major challenges still remain. We invite contributions that focus on interdisciplinary work to reveal the structure and dynamics of the interior of Earth, and links to surface manifestations. Observational, experimental and theoretical studies, along with historical reviews, are encouraged. We welcome in particular contributions that are provocative, radical, Devil’s Advocate, even outrageous, and have the potential to significantly advance our current understanding.
Co-Sponsor(s):
DI - Study of the Earth's Deep Interior
T - Tectonophysics
V - Volcanology, Geochemistry and Petrology
Index Terms:
8125 Evolution of the Earth [TECTONOPHYSICS]
8147 Planetary interiors [TECTONOPHYSICS]
8149 Planetary tectonics [TECTONOPHYSICS]
8180 Tomography [TECTONOPHYSICS]
Primary Convener: Don L Anderson, Caltech-Seismological Lab, Pasadena, CA, United States; Seismological Laboratory, Pasadena, CA, United States
Co-conveners: Jay Bass, University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign, Department of Geology, Urbana, IL, United States, Gillian R Foulger, University of Durham, Department of Earth Sciences, Durham, DH1, United Kingdom and James H Natland, University of Miami, Rosenstiel School of Marine and Atmospheric Science, Miami, FL, United States
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Sep 16, 2014 - 12:20pm PT
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Fook it's hot! I know we're gonna have an earthquake!
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