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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Jul 14, 2014 - 02:22pm PT
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This is another awful loss. Let me ask.
Should a half dozen people who are most familiar with Tahquitz sit down with Park people and consider our best response to this? Could be nothing. Could be something.
I remember very well when the woman bled to death on Sahara Terror in the 80's and the route has been notorious for loose rock in the 30 years since. I'd certainly be in favor of an assessment being done of that route/area--perhaps under the aegis of one of the SoCA climbing organizations.
I don't think it would be that difficult for a few climbers, preferably with some engineering experience, to inspect the route and come to a consensus on whether on not it would benefit from an effort to remove the obviously loose rock. The goal would not be to offer future climbers a guarantee, of course--but, let's face it, Tahquitz is more an urban crag than an alpine crag and ST is something of a trade route there.
If the assessment indicates that something can be done to improve the situation, discussions can then be had with Park officials to see if they agree and to coordinate the operation, with respect to safety, etc.
If the assessment indicates otherwise, nothing is lost except for the little bit of effort required to reach that determination.
Curt
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jul 14, 2014 - 02:34pm PT
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With all due respect to Bryan and any future climbers, I am sincerely skeptical about the idea of a large-scale project aimed at removing loose rock along the North Face of Tahquitz.
There is an awful lot of loose stuff up there, and there is a lot of surface area to assess & 'clean'. The resultant effort...if it could ever be mustered...would make a tremendous mess of the North Face, and likely just become a never-ending cycle of loose rock being created by the removal of loose rock. (Not to mention the tremendous aesthetic & environmental damage, risk to others in the area, and damage to surrounding routes.)
With no intention towards being callously trite, I think that Tahquitz is what it is, and needs to be accepted on those terms.
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Jul 14, 2014 - 02:37pm PT
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Could be. I would do the assessment first and then reach conclusions, however--instead of the other way around.
Curt
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yedi
Trad climber
Stanwood,wa
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Jul 14, 2014 - 02:42pm PT
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Very sad, my condolences. I learned to climb there and Suicide and have been up most of those N. side routes at one time or another. Seemed like a major undertaking and dangerous back then, but always an adventure. Climb safe and NEVER let your guard down!
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ColinQ
climber
San Diego, CA
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Jul 14, 2014 - 02:46pm PT
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Bryan was my direct supervisor at work for many years. I work in the cube next to him. I can personally attest that Bryan was one of the finest people I've ever met: caring, super-smart, giving, and extraordinarily talented. He wasn't just a coworker, he was a good friend.
I will miss him terribly, as will we all here. My deepest condolences to his family and friends.
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greiswig
Trad climber
Cornelius, OR
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Jul 14, 2014 - 03:19pm PT
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FWIW, I suspect Bryan would have been against the idea of cleaning the rock of loose flakes and similar problems. I can't say for sure, but that's my guess. Warn people? Sure, or at least see to it that there is available information for people who are seeking information like that. But as for a systematic effort to rid the rock of dangers even in part, I think he would have respected the rock more than that...as well as peoples' right to make their own choices.
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Steve P
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jul 14, 2014 - 04:15pm PT
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Many thanks again for the wonderful support from everyone in the climbing community. I created a memorial website for Bryan for people to share thoughts, condolences, etc. I would invite anyone from the climbing community to share a thought on his memorial page. As I mentioned in a previous post, Bryan was relatively new to the climbing community and his family and friends didn’t always understand the attraction of climbing because of the risk involved. It would be wonderful to share the support from the climber community with the rest of his family and friends on his memorial site. Hopefully, with time and support, climbing will be viewed as a deeply supportive and understanding community and not just a sport that claimed the life of a loved one. Here is the link:
http://www.forevermissed.com/bryan-rockwood/#about
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Kelby
Trad climber
East Wenatchee, WA
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Jul 14, 2014 - 04:45pm PT
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Steve
Very sorry to hear about Bryan
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Steve P
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jul 14, 2014 - 06:09pm PT
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@Kelby--Is this Kelby Burnham?
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Kelby
Trad climber
East Wenatchee, WA
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Jul 14, 2014 - 06:11pm PT
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It is! I emailed you my cell #. Gimme a shout brotha
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Aging Trad
Trad climber
Austin, TX
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Jul 15, 2014 - 04:22pm PT
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Did this a couple of years ago and have a recollection of climbing over/around a block about 4’ wide x 8’ tall x 8-10” thick that had seemingly slid down until the base of it was sitting against the trunk of a tiny pine about 4-5” in diameter that was sticking straight out from the wall – appeared to be the only thing keeping the block from sliding right down the wall. :-0 Terror is right!
My most heartfelt condolences to Bryan's family and friends.
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bootysatva
Trad climber
Idyllwild / Joshua Tree Ca.
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Jul 15, 2014 - 08:26pm PT
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I have spent many hours soloing on Tahquitz to remove loose rock over the last 40 years. Some of the rocks we removed were up to 6 ft x 3 ft x 1 ft. The north face will never be safe from loose rock and attempts to make it safe will only make it worse and damage fixed protection.
The Sahara Terror is a pretty loose affair as well, and easy to get on moves that feel like 5.9.
The trough has a block stack that defies gravity as does Ziggy Stardust.
The north Buttress is going to let some big slabs lose soon as well.
Best wishes to the family and friends of our fallen brother.
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jstan
climber
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Jul 15, 2014 - 08:27pm PT
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From the above link.
JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
May 26, 2011 - 02:31am PT
Best if YOSAR works it out with NPS and drops it deliberately, taking due precautions to secure the landing zone. If it's done by a pirate, there'll be all hell to pay.
Minor Correction:
YOSAR is a part of NPS-EMS operations. They are not separate organizations.
Hmmmm...If any visitor/tourist snuck through a closure and was hit by a piece of the fall out from that bomb...We can't allow that to happen so how to deal with this safely?
We've been thinking of this block for well over a year. Yes, there are liability issues with cutting a block free. Yet, look at Roger Brown's photo and think of all the blocks that are teetering in Yosemite. We all can think of several. It's tough to establish this precedent...but actually we've done it before.
I admit, this one is different given its location and likelihood to fall. A mid-(hot)summer or mid-winter mission would be best when less climbers would want to come to the base. My plan would be to climb to the alcove with Jake one day in mid-August and stay there that night. That week we would need to monitor the wall to make sure no one was starting a Big Wall route. We tell climbers ahead of time that we will be closing that area for this operation. The evening before with help from other Rangers/SAR we would sweep the base to ensure no one was sleeping there or staring a wall route. Then we would temporarily close the base with several trail blocks. At dawn personnel does one more sweep of the base and then one of us rappels down the Monster Offwidth and cuts the block loose.
It's been difficult to arrange this mission, and I wish we had already taken care of it. Just let me emphasize that this is not a standard operation, and please don't just tell the pirates to deal with this one. There are lots of folks down there often...a little different than trundling in a remote canyon.
Jesse McGahey
Yos. Climbing Ranger
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Anastasia
climber
Home
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Jul 15, 2014 - 08:43pm PT
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Horrible news! So sorry to hear, my condolences.
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Steve P
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jul 16, 2014 - 08:09am PT
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Does anyone know the two climbers that helped with Bryan's accident? They were climbing on Whodunit on Saturday when Bryan fell and were able to meet up with Bryan and his belayer until the rescuers arrived. Bryan's wife is looking for them to thank then for their help. I know their names are Sanji and Demitri. That is all I know and any help with contacting them will be greatly appreciated. Many thanks.
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Brian Allen
Trad climber
Palm Desert
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Jul 16, 2014 - 08:52am PT
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Steve - I noticed the two climbers who helped posted on the Sahara Terror page at mountain project. Could probably PM them from there.
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Kironn Kid
Trad climber
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Jul 16, 2014 - 03:19pm PT
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Truly sad news. I lost my best friend up there too.
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Michael Nicholson
Big Wall climber
Thousand Oaks
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Jul 16, 2014 - 03:59pm PT
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This is tragic! Condolences to the family. RIP
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jstan
climber
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Jul 17, 2014 - 09:36am PT
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I had an idea, wrote to Greg Stock. Here is my note and his reply.
Jstan to GStock
A question inspired by recent deaths due to rock fall. Do you suppose the bearing points for a block might be better known if the block was caused to respond to a hammer blow while a stethoscope was being used? Sort of like what is done in seismic studies. Perhaps you are already doing this.
Gstock to Jstan
We have utilized this kind of "sounding" to determine the spatial extent of rock slabs and it worked surprisingly well. I wasn't using a stethoscope, but could clearly hear when my partner, who was tapping on the cliff about 50 feet below, reached the end of a crack and got into solid rock (we subsequently monitored that area for a few weeks to listen for cracking). So I do think that approach has merit for understanding how firmly anchored (or not) a rock slab might be, but of course one must be very careful as the tapping could actually dislodge the slab.
So that everything is in one place I repost Jesse’s note here also.
JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
May 26, 2011 - 02:31am PT
Best if YOSAR works it out with NPS and drops it deliberately, taking due precautions to secure the landing zone. If it's done by a pirate, there'll be all hell to pay.
Minor Correction:
YOSAR is a part of NPS-EMS operations. They are not separate organizations.
Hmmmm...If any visitor/tourist snuck through a closure and was hit by a piece of the fall out from that bomb...We can't allow that to happen so how to deal with this safely?
We've been thinking of this block for well over a year. Yes, there are liability issues with cutting a block free. Yet, look at Roger Brown's photo and think of all the blocks that are teetering in Yosemite. We all can think of several. It's tough to establish this precedent...but actually we've done it before.
I admit, this one is different given its location and likelihood to fall. A mid-(hot)summer or mid-winter mission would be best when less climbers would want to come to the base. My plan would be to climb to the alcove with Jake one day in mid-August and stay there that night. That week we would need to monitor the wall to make sure no one was starting a Big Wall route. We tell climbers ahead of time that we will be closing that area for this operation. The evening before with help from other Rangers/SAR we would sweep the base to ensure no one was sleeping there or staring a wall route. Then we would temporarily close the base with several trail blocks. At dawn personnel does one more sweep of the base and then one of us rappels down the Monster Offwidth and cuts the block loose.
It's been difficult to arrange this mission, and I wish we had already taken care of it. Just let me emphasize that this is not a standard operation, and please don't just tell the pirates to deal with this one. There are lots of folks down there often...a little different than trundling in a remote canyon.
Jesse McGahey
Yos. Climbing Ranger
The authorities managing these public lands are between a rock and a hardplace. They have a lot of good people and we have a lot of good people. Maybe if we work more closely together we will find answers we did not know existed.
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