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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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I am alive and here with you,
in the united state of existence.
Some know how you got here but also those not sure,
to all who believe, though differently,
and those who do not believe at all,
we stand equal, for liberty and justice for the majority.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Topic Author's Reply - May 6, 2014 - 10:02am PT
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It is if you live in la la land.
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Riddle me this?
Can a group of Muslims open a government meeting with a prayer that denounces Jesus?
Can atheists have a statement read at public meeting denouncing all religion?
Where does it stop?
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
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Just as obviously they [the framers] did not pray at any of their meetings, did they?
How about a little quiz.
Is there something obviously wrong in this photo?
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Denying that this country was founded on Godly, Christian principles is akin to saying El Cap isn't steep.
We are a Christian nation, in spite of the atheists rebuttal.
Of course, until the end of time, this war against Christ will continue to rage...he foretold of it when he let his disciples know they would be persecuted for following him. That persecution continues...I get plenty of it right here on ST.
Arguing this point....is pointless. It's been going on for over 2,000 years...yet more and more people continue to accept Christ as their King.
Truth will always win.
El Cap ain't that steep. IN fact, the majority of it is a Slab.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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The "war on christ" is fox news tripe. The friggen supreme court rules praying at city meetings is o.k. and we still get butt hurt Christian posting.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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We are a Christian nation, in spite of the atheists rebuttal. Cragman my friend
I strongly disagree with you.
We are a nation of all faiths, including non-faith.
The government, at any level, has no business giving its imprimatur to any faith. Not having a prayer in a public meeting is not the same as denying any individual's faith. It means embracing all faiths equally. It means it is everyone's government.
However you or the Supreme Court choose to interpret the 1st Amendment it is morally wrong for a government to speak for any religion. People rightly take their own faith very seriously. No one's faith should be offended by the government.
Or put another way, there are many Muslim countries where the government does embrace the religion. Would you like to be a Christian there?
Our government must make clear that all faiths (including atheism) are tolerated and welcome here.
There's a good reason freedom of religion and speech were put in the same Amendment. You cannot have either without the other.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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It is a straight up case of an authority - one that is expected to represent all not the special few - elevating the special few and diminishing the rest, by way of selected religious doctrine.
Have you thought about it in this light? That it is a straight up case of authority, inthat our authoritative powers (the government) is conceding to a higher authoritative power. Do we really want our gov. or your gov, or any other gov in the world professing to be The Ultimate Authority? I think NOT! Tell me, what is the negative effects of us all bowing our heads for two minutes inorder to show respect to the powers above US ALL? Hell you can pray to whoever you want, To ur Mother Earth for example. Everyone should be able to recognize the attributes of prayer!
"Special few"? Last I counted the religious are the majority in The USA. Urs is just another blatant case of a few bad apples spoiling the whole bunch. You dont pray so why should anyone else. So enact a law and take away more rights.
And what are these "selected religious doctrines" you speak of? Have you ever even heard a prayer in court?
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dirtbag
climber
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Because it's a fu us non- Christians.
Why do you guys insist on shoving Jesus down our throats?
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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"We are a Christian nation, in spite of the atheists rebuttal."
High Traverse,
You walk into a bar. The bartender's gay. The owner's gay. The cocktail waitress is gay, and 85% of the patrons are gay. That would be a gay bar. Right?
In the U.S., the President's a Christian, the Vice President's a Christian, the head cocktail waitress ( Pelosi), she's Christian too. And so are about 85% of the population Christian.
You do the math.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
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^^I'd call that a nation with a lot of Christians in it and at least blue and zBrown call a "Muslim Thug" a Muslim Thug.
Do the Latin (I don't know why they're called that, since they seem to speak more Spanish than Latin) Christians get counted in that 85%?
Thank God.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Topic Author's Reply - May 6, 2014 - 01:17pm PT
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Chaz, are you really that shallow? Is your understanding of the history of United States of America that bad?
We aren't a second grade playground where the kids shout out the phrase "majority rules" like that idea defines democracy itself.
Do you really not get it that our entire political structure is designed to prevent the tyranny of the majority? Do you even understand that phrase?
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thebravecowboy
climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
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Yes, yes, He is the Burger King. Does this mean we all must eat flame-broil't Whoppers or suffer eternal damnation in the hellfire of his grill? If so, how many will suffice? Just one makes me feel kind of sick, but I suppose I could do a few more if it will keep me from charred on the griddle of his eternal love/hate.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Chaz
I ask you. Would you like to live in a Muslim country that recited prayers at town meetings? If so I invite you to move to Saudi Arabia.
You keep your religion out of my government and I'll happily support your right to choose and practice whatever religion you like.
Or you could move to Northern Ireland where Catholics and Protestants slaughtered each other for 200 years.
Ireland 1795:
the Battle of the Diamond, which saw the supremacy of the Anglican and Presbyterian Peep o'Day Boys over the Catholic Defenders and leading to the formation of the (Anglican) Orange Order. (Wikipedia Battle of the Diamond)
England had wars between Protestants and Catholics for a couple of centuries. Protestant Scotland against Catholic England.
The Founding Fathers knew all about a government recognizing a particular religion. Which is why they forbade it.
So don't tell me how great it is to have a "Christian" nation.
Or a Muslim nation since most of the fighting in Iraq has been between Muslim sects.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Topic Author's Reply - May 6, 2014 - 01:40pm PT
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You keep your religion out of my government and I'll happily support your right to choose and practice whatever religion you like.
Damn Fred, that's a mighty fine, one sentence, recitation of that part of the first amendment and of the reason for it's existence.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Mr Kay writes:
"Nor does it matter if it is "few" or "the majority", unless you, Cragman, Chaz and quite a few other so called followers of christ actually want and prefer a tyranny of the Majority, so long as it is your tyranny."
No follower of Christ here.
I don't have any religion whatsoever. Which is probably why people saying prayers, keeping kosher, growing beards, disappearing on *the Sabbath*, or whatever doesn't bother me.
My position has always been to take back most of the power of government, then it won't matter who is elected.
If the government lost its power to make me rich through ag subsidies, and lost its power to make things hard on my competitors on my behalf, then I wouldn't give a damn if a Pentacostal/Scientologist coalition ruled things, and they spent their time at council meetings passing around rattlesnakes while scanning the skies for Hubbard's Mothership.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
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Are jokes allowed?
What are the three French words every n... black man ... knows?
What are the three that every Christian knows and is taught?
"Forgive me Father.."
I know there is some Muslim equivalent, but I can't do all the comedy here.
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