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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Aug 10, 2006 - 10:51pm PT
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Er, uh, yeah, that's my dick lying flattened on the ground there.....
My sincere and heartfelt apologies to the very real, far-from-cowardly and said-to-have-been-quite-a-hottie Mimi "Forty Grit" deGravelle.
It would appear, like, I owe you a few beers, eh? Look me up next time you're in the Valley to collect.
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Teth
climber
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
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Aug 11, 2006 - 09:23am PT
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I nominate Kitten Crusher for "Best Use of Adjectives". I assume this is a Troll, otherwise Crusher may need some medication. I enjoyed the writing skill, although I had to read carefully to determine which group needed crucifying. This would definitely qualify as the recking ball swinging the other way, so I hope it is a Troll. It is certainly not what Richard and Mark would want.
Teth
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 11, 2006 - 12:21pm PT
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Yes, Teth, that was most certainly a wrecking ball. Hopefully a troll. Sad to think of somebody foaming at the mouth that much, even with command of language.
Of course, on the other hand, now that I think about it, maybe Mark and I can start to gather our own band of bad-boys now! Crusher as our OWN mad dog! Can he/she fight as well as write??? Wow, the possibilities are endless! Bwahahahaha!
Or not.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Aug 11, 2006 - 03:01pm PT
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wow.
I am out of the loop at this point, but still kinda' interested.
Just as reading goes,
That Kitten Crusher piece was a dazzler.
(No comment whatsoever on my part in terms of applicability).
And for levity's sake and to add a little flavor text,
and not at all to diminish anyone's serious regard for the topic:
We didn't call her "Mimi Dude" fer nothin'.
Carry on.
I'm back to my other forum based goodies.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Dec 29, 2007 - 04:17pm PT
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We're still waiting for Mimi's response to the fifth post.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2007 - 07:55pm PT
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And waiting...
For all its demands that Mark and I answer the same questions again and again, mimisoft doesn't seem willing to step up to a simple, obviously fair, and apropos question. Maybe the question hasn't been input yet in a fashion that the AI can grasp.
The whole "enhancement" issue does come down to a matter of scale, and I am confident that all of our WoS "enhancements" (falsely so called) "damaged" or removed less rock than just a couple of typical copperhead placements. We're talking about a microscopic amount of rock here, much less for the entire route than the "enhancement" caused by placing and removing just one piton.
Mimisoft, if "you" are going to continue to take us to task about this issue, please hold "yourself" to the same standard and answer the same question. Unless "your" paragons of purity have always climbed hammerless and have never wiggled a cam back and forth to "seat" it among some crumbling crystals, then "you" have nothing but hypocrisy to contribute to the discussion.
Still waiting....
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 29, 2007 - 09:55pm PT
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Why you guys so worried about Mimi?
You guys did your WOS to the best of your ability, you did Sea of Dreams in good style and best of your abilities.
You did intifada in good style. You did everything right.
So a few people are not happy? But you are happy? You should be.
Rest your case and,
Let the rest fall away ......
P.S. Merry Christmas Richard and Mark, and hope you have a nice wonderful New Year.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2007 - 10:28pm PT
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Merry Christmas to you too. And thank you.
I do wonder, though, why is it that if Mark or I engage in the ongoing discussion that continues, your immediate reaction is to assume that we are "worried" or have some other psychological problem? Would you prefer that as the discussion continues we simply keep silent? Neither of us started or even continued the latest round of discussions. So, are we not entitled to raise the same questions of mimisoft that it raises of us?
I wonder why as mimisoft continued to stir the turd that nobody is telling it to "get over it." I wonder why the presumption is that we are "defensive" or have some other psychological problem whenever we engage in discussion. It has actually become downright funny to me over these last few years to see how concerned a few people are with Mark's and my psychological states, especially when there are other, very rabid posters on this site that clearly merit such concern and don't get it. lol
No, far from being "worried" at this point, I am actually very, very happy. The facts are pretty much beyond dispute at this point, and finally the discussion has moved out of the realm of lies and into the realm of facts. Now, finally, after decades, the discussion can moving into something worthwhile and productive. Finally, we can start talking about WHAT features of a route make it worthwhile. And here, at this very junction, you are urging us to "let it go?"
It is no "worry" that causes me to care to see the likes of mimisoft hoist on their own petard. Let mimisoft rise to the same challenge it has laid down for us. Why? Because if mimisoft actually does have something substantive to say in answer to that challenge (highly unlikely), that will actually further a discussion that I think is important to all of us: the question of what makes a route worthwhile/legitimate. This question is actually closely related to what climbing is all about, and that certainly matters to all of us. So, yes, let mimisoft answer. I will do my best to find anything worthwhile there might be in that answer and respond to it, and that response will not be a function of "worry" or any other psychological defect.
Again, thank you for the compliments, and I do hope you had a great holiday season.
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cintune
climber
Penn's Woods
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Dec 29, 2007 - 10:42pm PT
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Dec 30, 2007 - 06:41pm PT
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Still waiting, Mimi.
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Wrathchild
Big Wall climber
Satan's testicles
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Dec 30, 2007 - 07:40pm PT
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I just can't help myself... must type something...
Look Richard, this whole thing had been laid to rest a year ago, but someone you know dredged it back up, perhaps at your urging, perhaps not. And the absurdity that someone is "still waiting" for a response is truly pathetic.
But what really undermines your position is that you diminuate her by calling her mimisoft, not even capitalizing a proper noun.
You get what you give in this life, and what I see you giving right now is a lack of respect. Quell surpriz! You didn't respect local ethics back then, and I have seen a regression back to that point.
You have lost the moral high ground you think you are preaching from. Ghandi never dissed anyone.
My opinions on the route have nothing to do with how I feel about you now. You are grasping at the noteriety of infamy from deeds a quarter century past.
It's not a suggestion, it is a PLEA - GET OVER IT.
It is a freakin' AID climb... You weren't that rad or you would have freed it.
I can't believe this came back, and I feel dirty for even adding to the post count.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 30, 2007 - 08:11pm PT
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Wrathchild, I find your posting fairly amazing on many levels. First, the person starting the posts again was somebody known to Mark, not me, and I still have no idea who it is. Neither Mark nor I had anything to do with that posting. Furthermore, neither of us responded until mimisoft had had its inevitable spew and many others had jumped into the discussion.
For you to insist that we keep quiet in the face of renewed slanders is utterly ridiculous on the face of it. Our willingness to FIGHT on these threads, to once and for all defend ourselves, is the only reason people have found out the truth! And we have determined that as far as we reasonably can, we will continue to fight to clear our names and our reputations against the lies that CONTINUE to keep spewing forth from a few rabid die-hards.
If you think that such a fight should be given up, then I simply don't agree with you. We've tried soooo many tactics over the decades, and we are now determined to engage with people at whatever level they find for themselves.
How is is "truly pathetic" to be "waiting for a response" when it is mimisoft that continues to press us for answers to questions we have answered again and again over the years? WE have asked VERY few questions! And the question that emerges in THIS thread is a critical question to be answered because it speaks to the double-standard that has EVER been employed to justify the outrageous treatment we have experienced over the decades. Mimisoft started this latest round of questions... thus it is FITTING, not absurd, to expect mimisoft to answer a long-standing question as well!
If you have a problem with me using the term "mimisoft," then I use your own words: GET OVER IT! If you can find ANY comparison between my employing my "mimisoft" gig and mimisoft's ENDLESS calling of grotesque names and continual lies in the face of evidence, then YOU, my friend, have a serious problem and no sense of humor. Mimisoft CONTINUALLY acts less intelligent on these threads than AI programs I myself could write, and I merely point out that simple fact. And mimisoft itself has the power to bring this discussion up a level by treating Mark and I as human beings with simple civility. Any PERSON on these threads that can't muster at least THAT at this point gets no sympathy from me. At least MY "name" for mimisoft is grounded in a legitimate POINT and is not a function of childish name-calling. Perhaps you missed the point, but there it is.
You say that we didn't respect local ethics back then, and that tells me that you have apparently felt so "dirty" that you couldn't even follow the discussion over the years. We did NOT ignore local ethics back then. Our ethic was higher than that employed on the Sea of Dreams and on most routes since! Regarding the ethic of treating people as people and engaging in reasonable dialog, WE were not the ones ignoring THAT ethic back then. So, you clearly do not know what you are talking about.
Your cluelessness is made most clear by your claim: "It is a freakin' AID climb... You weren't that rad or you would have freed it." The absurdity of that claim doesn't warrant a response.
Mimisoft continues to slander us and continues, along with Grossman, to accuse us of not being willing to answer "pressing" questions. In this very thread mimisoft presses us about "enhancements," and it is in this very thread that I ask mimisoft to answer its own question. That is NOT too much to ask, and I will not "get over it."
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Dec 30, 2007 - 08:34pm PT
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Wrathchild: "Look Richard, this whole thing had been laid to rest a year ago, but someone you know dredged it back up, perhaps at your urging, perhaps not."
Look, Liz, I restarted this thread and I do not know Richard or Mark. I never met them, I never spoke to them and I never exchanged emails with them. Neither Richard or Mark asked me to restart it. I restarted it because Mimi restarted http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=237614&tn=120
and continues to question Richard and Mark without having answered Richard's questions for her.
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Dec 30, 2007 - 08:36pm PT
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"It is a freakin' AID climb... You weren't that rad or you would have freed it."
That is one of the funniest things ever posted!!
Hahahaha!
All of you big wall "First Ascenters" apparently suck!
I guess Klaus ain't that rad?
Edit: I'm with Werner on this.
Until someone comes back with first hand knowledge and proof of a contrived, manufactured route, I see no evidence to support the detractors claims.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Dec 30, 2007 - 08:59pm PT
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Oh for frig's sake, Dr. Jensen - do you knott know the difference between "libel" and "slander"?
And you're a professor? Lawsy lawsy lawsy, no wonder the kids of this world are turning out so badly. You guys are not only the ruination of the Great Slab, you're just doing so much worse! "Worse?" you ask. Hell, yeah.
How do you explain THIS:
"...by treating Mark and I ..."
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 30, 2007 - 09:43pm PT
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I guess I jest haf ta spent mo tyme editting fo ah posts.
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MisterE
Social climber
CA
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Jul 11, 2011 - 11:41pm PT
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Since we're on the subject, I think this deserves a bump. No judgment, just putting it on the table.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 11, 2011 - 11:51pm PT
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No judgment, just putting it on the table.
BwaHaHaHa! You troublemaker, you! :-)
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Jul 11, 2011 - 11:56pm PT
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Werner says it all in the above, final answer.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jul 12, 2011 - 09:41am PT
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The parochialism of ST has become abundantly clear with the number of threads/replies concerning this obscure, probably tainted, climb. I wish there were a forum I could go to that approaches climbing in a broader, more International, way.
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