OT Just how bad is the drought? Just curious OT

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Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 27, 2014 - 01:30pm PT
Hey you rotten John, I could sell you some landfill in the South Bay (Fremont, San Jose, Hayward area), but I might get done for it, as it is prone to quivering like jelly in an earthquake. Got 1-1/4 acre in West Virginia, interested? And John, I just collected some rain to send you, but the darn envelope leaked. I have to remind myself not to send liquids in paper envelopes.

And Survival, yes, I challenge anybody to say that humans do not impact on the earth. But according to the late Ronnie Raygun, so do cow farts and belches… and volcanoes, and…



EDIT

Johnny, I first climbed at Patrick's Point in 1972. Not much rock but fun. There is/was this sea stack with a fine 5.9ish crack up it, short, about 50 feet, but a gas.

I am going to start a sea cliff/coastal climbing thread. I only have a couple of pix of me bouldering in the west of Ireland near Doolin along the sea. But with all respects to the late Michael Reardon, rogue waves do happen, so one must be careful and aware.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jan 27, 2014 - 02:01pm PT
Thanks Paddy for the rain...I'm thankful you didn't send me some cow methane in that envelope...Big Jim is out and about but i haven't seen him yet...Rarely do...Carry on..
PAUL SOUZA

Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
Jan 27, 2014 - 02:10pm PT
Paul , how sweet was Monitor Pass on that last stretch heading down to 395 ? Long sweeping curves ... beautiful riding .

Dapper,

Not sweet enough to really push it in the corners. The front tire tucked on me a few times due to fine gravel along the center of the turns that's hard to see.

"Oh, so THAT'S why my bike feels like it's floating in the curves." Haha. Yikes!!

No ice though, so I was happy.

My right grip heater stopped working. So I had to buy some ski gloves in Minden, NV and stuff them with hand warmers. Haha.




crunch

Social climber
CO
Jan 27, 2014 - 02:53pm PT
Snowing in Boulder--and a lot more than they predicted. But it's upslope, from the east. Not helping the ski resorts in the mountains.

In Moab over the weekend. No wind, no cloud, cold, weak sun. Been that way every day for weeks. There was snow on the ground, a months old, even in sunny spots.

Where's the pacific storms this winter?

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jan 27, 2014 - 03:57pm PT
The Christmas flood of 1964 was a major flood that took place in the Pacific Northwest and California between December 18, 1964 and January 7, 1965, spanning the Christmas holiday.

Considered a 100-year flood, it was the worst flood in recorded history on nearly every major stream and river in coastal Northern California and one of the worst to affect the Willamette River in Oregon. It also had an impact on parts of southwest Washington, Idaho, and Nevada.

Nothin' compared to 1860

Orange County was an inland sea for three weeks.

Sacramento under water for a month.


http://www.redlandsfortnightly.org/papers/Taylor06.htm
klk

Trad climber
cali
Jan 27, 2014 - 04:14pm PT
To grow crops or even just to keep trees alive, everyone will be pumping groundwater. The water table will drop quickly and many pumps will run dry. Wealthier farmers who could afford to drill deeper wells in the recent past, will be able to continue pumping while their neighbors go dry.

worth repeating. folks with senior rights to subsidized water are selling that stuff to their neighbors at a high margin, then pumping the wells.

we now have a 1200 sq mile subsidence zone in the upper sj valley. a bit south of merced, the floor has been dropping a foot per year! it's so bad that's it's damaged the d-m canal.

and we've got thousands of new acres of almond tress going in in eastern contra costa and elsewhere-- we're going to have extreme mining scenarios this year. AZ and CO already regulate groundwater pumping, just because of this kind of experience.

this drought may be the end of a huge chunk of small ranchers and farmers. folks are culling herds already. and since we didn't have a grass season, there isn't grass to reseed for next year even if next season is wetter.

by and large, the smaller ranchers tend to be better about range management and ar emore likey to run grass-fed beef rather than those feedlot steroid freaks.

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jan 27, 2014 - 04:19pm PT
The 1860 flood literally bankrupted the entire state and put an end to the ranchero system forever.

The Sacramento Daily Union reported that 1/3 of the taxable property in the state of
California was lost, and also estimated that ¼ of all cattle were drowned (200,000). One house in eight was destroyed and 7/8 of all houses were damaged. The loss of all property was between $50 and $100 million (Brewer, 1966, p246). This sum corresponds to an average loss of between $100 and $200 for every person in the state. (The loss of cattle by flood, and the record drought year that followed, ended the early California cattle industry, and the cattle-based ranchero society (Jelinek, 1998/1999).
Brewer writes, on January 19, 1862:
“The great central valley of the state is under water – the Sacramento and San Joaquin valleys -- a region 250 to 300 miles long and an average of at least twenty miles wide, or probably three to three and a half millions of acres! Although much of it is not cultivated, yet a part of it is the garden of the state. Thousands of farms are entirely under water – cattle starving and drowning. All the roads in the middle of the state are impassable; so all mails are cut off. We have had no “‘Overland” for some weeks, so I can report no new arrivals... The telegraph also does not work clear through, but news has been coming for the last two days. In the Sacramento Valley for some distance the tops of the poles are under water. The entire valley was a lake extending from the mountains on one side to the coast range hills on the other. Steamers ran back over the ranches fourteen miles from the river, carrying stock, etc, to the hills.”
Remember Judge Field? He was responsible for support for Whitney and Brewer’s investigations. His home, although located on one of the higher areas of Sacramento, was filled with two feet of mud after the food waters subsided.

For a week the tides at the Golden Gate did not flood, rather there was continuous and forceful ebb of brown fresh water 18-20 feet deep pouring out above the salt water. A sea captain reported that his heavily laden ship foundered in the Gulf of the Farallons off of San Francisco, due to the layer of fresh water. Fresh-water fish were caught in San Francisco Bay for several months after the peaks of the flood. These events have not happened since. (Ellis 1936)

Peak flow of the Santa Ana river in San Bernardino, (about where the 10 freeway crosses) was estimated at 320,000 cfs For perspective the total maximum flow of the Mississippi is between 200, 700 thousand CFS depending on the year.

From stream bed geology along the coast it looks like this kind of event is a regular 250-500 year occurrence.


neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Jan 27, 2014 - 04:38pm PT
hey there say, patrick, thanks for the title share, here...
(i'm a calif gal and remember drought, dry years, etc, and the thoughts
of folks at these times)...

paul... thanks for the interesting info...

kunlun_shan... thanks for the news link...




also:
on the side note, as to all this... just curious????
does the lack of deep water in ground, etc,
cause enough change in the berocks/ground, etc,
as to make calif more earthquake iffy?
as to the movement, around or near the faults???


thanks for any info, on this, as well as drought info...
Mcschiz

Sport climber
Mt. Shasta, California
Jan 27, 2014 - 05:01pm PT
It has rained/snowed for a total of 12 hours in the past 6 months in the Shasta area
klk

Trad climber
cali
Jan 27, 2014 - 05:06pm PT
neebee, the drought and the groundwater pumping don't seem to change earthquake probabilities, although no one knows for certain.

but ground subsidence from all the pumping dramatically increases the range of areas exposed to major floods, and in some cases (i.e. increasing pressure on dikes/levees) makes flooding more likely.

the subsidence study shocked a lot of folks, including the study authors. way worse than anyone anticipated. and some of that damage is like small, local earthquake damage.

worth reading

http://pubs.usgs.gov/sir/2013/5142/
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Jan 27, 2014 - 05:36pm PT
hey there say, klk... thank you for the share...
i will go read it...

i know getting curious doesn't help fix things, but i just try to
understand... :)


say, i do NOT know IF THIS is 'reliable' etc... but it was interesting to
look at...

someone 'more in the know' can check it out...
it lists flood and drought info... etc...
as a sort of study...

http://geochange.er.usgs.gov/sw/impacts/hydrology/state_fd/cawater1.html
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Jan 27, 2014 - 05:37pm PT
On the Central Coast - we are beginning to hear the first rumblings of discontent aimed at the vineyards.

A lot of the residential properties east of Paso Robles and in the Santa Ynez area rely on private wells - some of which have quit producing in the past few months. The grumblings about the "damn retirees with their boutique vineyards sucking up the water" is becoming a louder refrain in both areas.

Locally, we are starting to see more horses offered up for quick sale on Craigslist along with small herds of goats, sheep and cattle. A buddy of mine just culled his sheep stock from 60 down to 20 - mainly holding on to the ewes still feeding their lambs - but with a bale of alfalfa running 28 bucks when the normal price was 13 - he's thinking he may have to cut the whole herd pretty soon.

What is interesting given the lack of drowning rains is the EXPLOSION of gopher and ground squirrel intrusion. The little SOBs have devastated yards and gardens - even ate 6 of 8 rose bushes in my yard.
the albatross

Gym climber
Flagstaff
Jan 27, 2014 - 06:28pm PT
Earlier today Patrick Sawyer queried:

"And, what about Oregon, Washington, Idaho, BC, Nevada, Arizona and such… how much are they being affected by the (super?) high off the West Coast?"

Although the ridge may break down temporarily later this week, from what I've read on the National Weather Service sites, it is forecast to build back up.

Check out this from the Climate Prediction Center:

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov

Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Jan 27, 2014 - 06:59pm PT
Regarding where alot of our water goes, from the Natural Resources Defense Council:
Agriculture now uses approximately 80 percent of California's developed water supply, but produces less than 2.5 percent of California's income.
Alfalfa, the biggest water user of any California crop, soaks up almost a quarter of the state's irrigation water. Yet alfalfa -- harvested mostly for hay to feed dairy livestock -- is a low-value crop that accounts for only 4 percent of state farming revenues. An alfalfa farm using 240 acre feet of water generates $60,000 in sales, while a semiconductor plant using the same amount of water generates 5,000 times that amount, or $300 million. (And while such a farm could function with as few as two workers, the semiconductor plant would employ 2,000.)
In short, California devotes 20 percent of its developed water supply to a crop that generates less than one-tenth of one percent of the state's economy. Given the degraded state of California's rivers and growing demands for water for higher value agricultural crops and urban areas, is this an efficient use of a precious resource?
Alfalfa covers more of California's land than any other kind of produce. About 26% is grown in the state's parched southern deserts, and despite the existence of demonstrated techniques for achieving high crop yields with water-saving methods -- such as drip irrigation and bedded alfalfa
    most California growers use inefficient irrigation techniques such as flooding.
Excessive water use isn't the only cost associated with alfalfa crops. Seventy percent of the state's alfalfa feeds California's largest agricultural industry: its dairy cows. Dairy farms in the Central Valley alone produce as much waste as a city of 21 million; illegal manure waste from dairies is believed to threaten the drinking water of 65 percent of Californians. In total, 7,000 gallons of water go into keeping a single cow alive for a single day, yielding a daily return of about 30 cents. Wasteful subsidies worsen this problem by increasing dairy demand for alfalfa.
Although alfalfa does yield some environmental benefits -- maintaining soil health, providing some wildlife habitat and preventing erosion through its extensive root systems -- current production levels are unsustainable, contributing to the destruction of ecosystems all over the state.
Even a modest reduction in production would result in tremendous water savings.
klk

Trad climber
cali
Jan 27, 2014 - 07:03pm PT
yeah, megadairies and almonds. two of the worst things to happen to california in the last 20 years.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Jan 27, 2014 - 07:23pm PT
Sactown has been raised twice, second raise did not go all the way to old town, so you see a rise when driving up Broadway near the projects, graveyard is higher than the projects, got to save the rich dead people,

fire has torched that town a couple of times, tough life that place had,

you can dig down and find old buildings in some places,

lived on top of an old dump, use to dig for antique bottles,

rice farmers should be alright, shasta will give them water,

klk

Trad climber
cali
Jan 27, 2014 - 07:33pm PT
yeah, 76-77.

the cdec site has the april 1 totals and a lot more. useul site and worh exploring if folks don't already know it:

http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/products/April_1_SWC.pdf
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Jan 27, 2014 - 09:26pm PT
hey there say, randishi... i remembered that 70's drought too, and i wanted to find it, which i did, after a bit of looking... and as timid shared, the rains came...

i think i was up visiting, too, for the one in the 90's, as, it seemed worse, than the 70's was...

i remember as kids, my mom was always mentioning about the dryness and fire danger levels, etc... (when we were on hikes) ...

thanks for all the share, and the land use/water use stuff that
i never knew/or know about...

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jan 27, 2014 - 09:33pm PT
There are probably a billion people in the world that have never peed into a basin of clean water like we do several times a day.

The Romans were shiting and pissing in a stream of clean water 2000+ years ago.

Know where the aqueducts flushed?


rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jan 27, 2014 - 09:38pm PT
Uphill ? I give up...
Messages 61 - 80 of total 1730 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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