Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
|
|
Agreed.
|
|
kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
|
|
You do not want to hear the response I instantly got
Aww come one now - don't tease us Chief!
|
|
Ham and Eggs
Mountain climber
Aoraki/Mt Cook Village
|
|
Used any other brands Vitaliy?
How would you rate your placement/recovery skills?
Have you taken many lead falls that test your placements?
Whilst sounds you have climbed some great routes with great guys, have you had the chance to learn a bit about placement from some awesome aid climbers (aid seems a great way to learn the nuisances of gear placement) or following super mountain guides?
I have climbed with some pretty strong guys who rarely ever fall in the alpine environment, so there placements aren't tested much
And I have followed some of the best guides in the business who place gear for clients who fall all the time (Benegas brothers, Craig Luebben, Scrappy Synott, Marko Prezelj, Guy Cotter, Pat Littlejohn, Seb Montez). The same gear also needs to be placed so the client can clean the route efficiently with minimal risk of damage or drop - tricky tri-cams in limestone, granite and greywackle - BD, Camp, Metolius, Omega, Totem standard and off-sets in standard and awkward cracks. Those great rockecentrics stacked in tricky to reach deep cracks. Basically everything their is and when I ask what is the best gear, the unison is that everything works, but you have to look after it, consider what your partner does when they've borrowed/cleaned it and accept that apprenticeships take years.
Not inferring pilot error by default
Guess you'll have to use another brand; or invest alot of enthusiasm in becoming world-class kick-arse at placing and maintaining the gear you have - which can be a satisfying step in your dreams towards further adventures
Thanks for sharing your experience. I'll stick with the C4's and X4's that noobs like me give a thrashing, but seem to hold up well-enough
|
|
Rudbud
Gym climber
Grover Beach, CA
|
|
After seeing you place a #1 camalot in the most horrible spot ever a couple weeks ago, Im not sure it's all the cams fault V.
Just saying Bro. Noob shit!
|
|
Guernica
climber
right there, right then
|
|
Have to chime in that I've always loved Metolius gear, their cams especially, and the one issue I've had (don't remember the details as it was years ago, but I think a wire got tweaked on wartley's revenge at smith) was cheerfully and expediently dealt with by replacement with a brand new cam... so A+ for customer service too, in my experience at least.
^Now how's *that* for a run-on sentence!
|
|
jfs
Trad climber
Upper Leftish
|
|
I climb on mastercams, TCUs, BD, and a mess of others from time to time. I use and abuse the lot of em. They all work well and hold up to plenty of abuse. Occasionally things wear out. Occasionally things even break. Such is life.
Opinions will of course vary but I've whipped on too many Metolius cams to put much stock in one rant about one lost cam. Stuff happens.
edit: to get to the point
|
|
Jerry Dodrill
climber
Sebastopol
|
|
After Trango, I've found more Metolius cams stuck in cracks than any other.
|
|
Laine
Trad climber
Reno, NV
|
|
|
Jan 10, 2014 - 12:16am PT
|
Can anybody on the internet not lose their gear like a man? Silently, with pent up rage they'll release later on small animals? Feckin hilarious. Where do you come up with this stuff?
But seriously, I've not had problems with the master cams but I recently placed an x4 thinking it was a master (I was using a friend's rack), pretty much identical. X4s are bullet.
|
|
Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2014 - 01:19am PT
|
Have you lost lots of other gear too or only Metolius?
Just wondering.
Never lost any other cams. As far as I can remember. I did have some whips on my gear and it held so far. Knock on wood. I promise that placements on both of these green cams were great. I don't know why the thing got inverted on NEB, and on Sherrie's the cable snapped with a light pull.
Can anybody on the internet not lose their gear like a man? Silently, with pent up rage they'll release later on small animals?
Will release the range when I look at your facebook before I go to sleep bro..
You guys are free to judge me, call me a noob, do your regular internet wanking from the couch, but the point of this thread is for me to give a review and show the middle finger to the brand that IN MY OPINION produces shitty cams in medium to larger range at the moment. In fact, even if I took that thing with a snapped cable out, it would be pointless for me to send it back to them in exchange for a new cam. I would not use that garbage. Do you think their incredible customer service can ger me a gift card to REI so I could get a cam of a different brand?
Tom, credit where credit is due...noob sh#t fo life!
|
|
jfs
Trad climber
Upper Leftish
|
|
|
Jan 10, 2014 - 01:32am PT
|
I don't think there are many stories like my first... So your general take away might be that, this being an (apparently) not all that common occurrence, painting with this rather broad brush MIGHT be a little over the top.
Not calling you a noob. No disrespect. You're probably a cool dude. But I draw my own conclusions about whether or not to listen to reviews based on how considered I think said reviews are. I'm not picking that up from your original post.
Besides, my own experience says quite the opposite.
Cheers.
|
|
Ham and Eggs
Mountain climber
Aoraki/Mt Cook Village
|
|
|
Jan 10, 2014 - 01:42am PT
|
How long you had your "opinion" for V?
How long you been climbing for?
How many years you worked as engineer or toolmaker?
Takes the average UIAGM/IFMGA guide 6-7 years of a lot of climbing, which draws them away from opportunities to post on the net, before they are assessed to be capable of guiding others.
If Metolius don't work for you then I can appreciate why the expense hurts.
But don't go getting the knickers-in-a-knot when others ask a little about whether there may hap be other factors at play.
Give it a couple years of learning mate. You seem on a pretty neat trajectory. You've an FA and repeated some neat routes, switching leads. Why not embrace the value in assessing how your own techniques may impact the fatigue on gear a little more?
That said though, if you got a bad batch then bummer. Just makes you an unlucky bloke - see if you can boost that karma.
Namaste
|
|
Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2014 - 02:51am PT
|
Why not embrace the value in assessing how your own techniques may impact the fatigue on gear a little more?
Are you saying it was my fault the kevlar cable popped on a pretty much new cam with a light press on the trigger? Do you think it was my fault two of my yellows 'stuck' together and one of them begun to work again after a night long bath in wd40? The other is still not moving. I wasn't storing them in a sand dune and wasn't washing them in acid baths.
|
|
Ham and Eggs
Mountain climber
Aoraki/Mt Cook Village
|
|
|
Jan 10, 2014 - 03:18am PT
|
Either you're trolling mate, or this angst is before it's' deserved time
Nup. I'm not blaming your dear self V.
I'm asking how long you been climbing for
Who taught you how to place gear
How long you been an engineer or toolmaker for
To consider if the way the gear has been used is a factor
If you've been unlucky, to work on that karma
You don't "press" on the trigger, you pull on it. And such an angst review from such a small sample size from a guy who's been climbing for just X? years with tears is curious when he provides little discussion of how he may have contributed to fatigue.
And your attack on others is just not measured. To borrow another man's line. "I'm not a tough guy, but I've sorted a number of blokes who thought they were tough guys". Try that attitude and you may find honey poured over your tent. You'll be screaming "Who did this to ME" as you plow on your ranting search. The more useful question is an internal quest "What do I do to make people want to"
Plenty of other 5.11 climbers around with just as great ambitions, though perhaps a more engaging attitude. Pull your head in pup. Project the humility you show in some of your achievements into the relationships you are trying to have with others. Metolius ain't trying to rip you off. Nor are 'your/ me me me' dissenters. You are part of our collective community, nurture that and you will be appreciated all the more for it
|
|
Johnny K.
climber
|
|
|
Jan 10, 2014 - 09:35am PT
|
WBraun:
Stupid cams
Why even both placing them,
just run it out ......
|
|
Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2014 - 11:12am PT
|
You don't "press" on the trigger, you pull on it.
Sorry wrong choice of a word. English is my second language.
And your attack on others is just not measured.
I do not think I attacked anyone here who has not attacked me/provided constructive feedback after reading the post. When someone pops in and says "oh how are your dumbass gonna blame the cam for getting stuck after whipping on it?!" I will not tolerate the rude f*#k and call him a moron because he did not even read the OP. Kind of like the Chief in his last post, MY PROBLEM WITH THAT CAM WAS NOT LUBING IT EVER, IT WAS THE KEVLAR CABLE POPPING WHEN I TRIED TO TAKE THE CAM OUT FROM AN EASY PLACEMENT. I used wd40 to get another two of their cams unstuck after they stopped camming in for some reason.
Ham and eggs, I have no desire to answer your questions, because to be honest I am not looking for climbing community to pour honey on my tent. I just call it as I see it, and if you are offended by what I said here, well tough life mate, go get yourself a napkin. I am not looking for anything from you. I am not looking to be liked or desired by you. If you don't like what I think than hell, we are not gonna get along, and that's fine. I have plenty of good friends in real life who I value. Here I am obviously not happy with the product, which had caused my annoyed post. I was happy to hear some other people saying they had similar issues. Like Salamanizer for example, who has been climbing for much longer than I and who climbs on a regular basis. I did not start this thread for people to call me out for being a noob and not being able to place a cam. Just sharing my experience.
|
|
pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
|
|
|
Jan 10, 2014 - 11:14am PT
|
I have double racks of the tri and 4lobed metolius cams.
Best in the business!
Maybe you should inspect ur climbing gear before the lead climb!
I've got an emergency trigger kit that I always carry with me.
|
|
couchmaster
climber
pdx
|
|
|
Jan 10, 2014 - 11:37am PT
|
Thanks for the report Vitaly. It's appreciated. Clearly the cam was at fault and failed due to a Mfg flaw. Not because of you. Not because of lube, not because of the devil or whateverelse folks are suggesting. A flaw. It's rare but it happens to others cams too, plenty of reports out there. I love the Metolius cams and that's what I bought for my kid when he needed his first cams. They were used and beat to sh#t, dirt cheap. Sent them back to Metolius and they cleaned, straightens them, sewed new slings and they looked new.
Metolius cams are superb devices that work fantastic. Doesn't mean that they can't screw one up while making it. Those freaking kevlar cables can get all clusterf*#ked on the Metolius Supercams. I had my large get clusterf*#ked right in the Epinephrine chimney at the worst time Ggggrrrr. Squeezing the trigger caused the cable to roll right next to the cam and get pinched, causing the lobes to be stuck in the open position. So angry that I had to carry an unworkable brick (they are heavy cams) through there, it took 2 hands at the belay stance to get it unclustered, then it jammed for my partner later although he got it to work in his placement. Getting a new one from REI did not alleviate my being pissed at it for failing when I needed it, and although I love those cams and the replacement hasn't done that to me...yet, won't be taking one on a long route like that ever again. Grrrr.
BTW, speaking of lube, I've had great success lately with some sweet water based lube called ID sexy or some such. Might have to try it on the cams later.
|
|
Slabby D
Trad climber
B'ham WA
|
|
|
Jan 10, 2014 - 11:43am PT
|
I generally like Metolius and the old tricams hold up forever. Mastercams place great But Mastercans have some somewhat unforgivable durability issues.
Due to a design flaw The cam stops on purple cams routinely snapped off leaving the cam inoperable. Metolius eventually stopped milling grooves across the cam face which fixed the problem but never fessed up to the original issue.
The rubber tubing over the thumb loop cable is poor quality and will eventually break leaving you with exposed cable and a sling that can't move freely. No fix.
I got them and I use them but I wouldn't buy anymore of them.
|
|
Myles Moser
climber
Lone Pine, Ca
|
|
|
Jan 10, 2014 - 11:51am PT
|
Wooooh, heading' to Canada for some big ass mountains and ice ..... Good luck friends with this one!
|
|
Rankin
Social climber
Greensboro, North Carolina
|
|
|
Jan 10, 2014 - 11:55am PT
|
I've had a set of Master Cams for about 4 or 5 years, and I'm still using the same TCU's that I got over 15 years ago. Great gear. Never had to leave one behind, and have never had a wire break. Sounds like an aberration in your case.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!