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JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
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Jul 29, 2006 - 04:24pm PT
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HOLY CRAP!!!!
I've been hearing about this crap since day 2 of my new job here. I haven’t had 100% confirmation that these fixed lines and other associated garbage was still up there until now. I wanted to check it out myself, but high waters in Tenaya Creek and now 100 degree plus temps have been my excuses. The story that I heard was this was the ultimate training route using MINI TRAXION top-rope soloing techniques. Locals have said that they have been there possibly since the Fall of 2004!
I hate to say it, but I'm psyched to hear everyone getting so irate about this. You guys are right, it’s up to climbers to be the stewards of their own garden if everyone wants to continue to have the freedoms Yosemite climbers have enjoyed for years (or to have more freedoms). Currently climbers still don't need permits for bivying overnight, there is only one Climbing Ranger...and I'm just a seasonal, and so on...
Earlier this season, with the help of another Ranger, I cleaned up the mess of another apparent sponsored free climber project. See the following topic:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=215295
Interestingly enough there was lots of brand new BD, 5.10, and Patagonia equipment in this lot as well. I attempted to contact the person I was told was the owner by several locals, but so far he has not come forward to claim his gear. If it is in fact the same person, someone who knows him well needs to have a heart to heart with him, and figure out what the problem is. However, if he or she cleans this up on their own, I think we should respect the person for turning over a new leaf. Public embarrassment is probably a factor in their reluctance to deal at this point. Those of you who want to help could still help
and it would be finished in a day or two.
You folks are also right that the less we(The NPS) have to step in and clean up these areas the better it will be for climbers here in the Valley. The YCA "Yosemite facelift," happening again in late September, is a huge reputation booster for climbers. Ken Yeager was suggesting that Maybe we can get the NPS to offer free camping throughout the year for folks who want to do volunteer work on special projects, like cleaning up the SF of Watkins. I think that is a great idea.
Tomorrow I'm embarking on operation Kleenex...Wipe the Nose...with Link, Parker Davis, and Brent Gordon. We are taking an extra Haul Bag and some other tools to clean up Camp 6 and everything else up there. Hopefully we won't be bouted by the hot garbage or sizzling temps, but we'll get as much as we can down.
So, the next 4 days I’ll be on the Nose, but I’ll be down on Wednesday Aug. 2nd. As the NPS ambassador to the climbing community I would like to be involved. If folks want to clean this up as early as next week, let me know. I can help facilitate possible camping options, directly help in the operation, and carry on the message that climbers are proactively taking care of their own business.
Later,
Jesse
209-372-0354
jesse_mcgahey@nps.gov
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Jul 30, 2006 - 01:53am PT
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Why not just tell the guy who left his stuff up there to get it down?
Why should all you folks have to do all his work?
The booty cams is reason enough to clean it up. The weight-cost to carry out the trash ropes is minimal.
Lincoln Else taught us to "Link Our Descents", which is to grab all the garbage with us and take it down. I suppose this applies to Linking on Ascent, too.
When PTPP and I did Bermuda Dunes, we came upon a HUGE trashpile at the Alcove (Salathe Wall) that we collected and carried up with us. We didn't get all of it (most was far down the chimney crack below) but we put a huge dent in the mess.
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stonemonkey32
climber
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Jul 30, 2006 - 07:08pm PT
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so this is not the first time we have had to deal with abandoned gear in the valley. ever year more and more stuff is left everywhere. who here hasent toped out the captin only to find trash and abandoned food and other crap strewn all over the summit. or found random cans or bottels of crap shoved in cracks because somone was too lazy to take it out. i dont think that abandoning a project and not cleaning up the mess is cool, but this is a climber issure and should be taken care of by climbers. please dont involve the park service. there is no need. lets keep it in the comunity the more they are aware of issues like this the more freedom we lose in the valley. if no one else dose anything about it this summer ill try and get somthing done with it this fall, ill be there for the season.
thanks and lets keep it in the family.
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stonemonkey32
climber
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Jul 30, 2006 - 07:08pm PT
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so this is not the first time we have had to deal with abandoned gear in the valley. ever year more and more stuff is left everywhere. who here hasent toped out the captin only to find trash and abandoned food and other crap strewn all over the summit. or found random cans or bottels of crap shoved in cracks because somone was too lazy to take it out. i dont think that abandoning a project and not cleaning up the mess is cool, but this is a climber issure and should be taken care of by climbers. please dont involve the park service. there is no need. lets keep it in the comunity the more they are aware of issues like this the more freedom we lose in the valley. if no one else dose anything about it this summer ill try and get somthing done with it this fall, ill be there for the season.
thanks and lets keep it in the family.
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stonemonkey32
climber
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Jul 30, 2006 - 07:08pm PT
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so this is not the first time we have had to deal with abandoned gear in the valley. ever year more and more stuff is left everywhere. who here hasent toped out the captin only to find trash and abandoned food and other crap strewn all over the summit. or found random cans or bottels of crap shoved in cracks because somone was too lazy to take it out. i dont think that abandoning a project and not cleaning up the mess is cool, but this is a climber issure and should be taken care of by climbers. please dont involve the park service. there is no need. lets keep it in the comunity the more they are aware of issues like this the more freedom we lose in the valley. if no one else dose anything about it this summer ill try and get somthing done with it this fall, ill be there for the season.
thanks and lets keep it in the family.
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BoKu
Trad climber
Douglas Flat, CA
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Jul 31, 2006 - 08:37pm PT
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http://www.patagonia.com/web/us/product/patagonia.go?assetid=1875
"I also believe that climbers have an impact on the environment and they should be more aware of their impact. You go to climbing areas and the bases are trashed, there's trash on the walls – it stays for decades. At bouldering areas there's cigarette butts. You go to the alpine climbing areas and there are hundreds of pounds of trash. Climbers need to be better about cracking down on ourselves."
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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Jul 31, 2006 - 09:10pm PT
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"He also made the first free ascent of Mount Watkins, Yosemite's other Grade VI wall, in a day"
from same site.
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Dragon with Matches
climber
Bamboo Grove
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Just finished my wall clean-up.
My kitchen wall, that is. Used to be some trash on there.
A picture I used to think was rad, from Climbing mag a few years back, that I taped up by the doorway. Some "famous" dude soloing Astroman. The image faded a bit after a recent event in Utah, but I thought it still looked okay. Today I realized how bad my kitchen looks with trash on the wall.
Now the trash is gone and my wall looks better.
Mucho props to anyone working on that Watkins cleanup.
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Anguish
Mountain climber
Jackson Hole Wyo.
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YC, Pratt and Harding did the FA. Read Pratt's account in the AAJ, one of possibly only three published pieces by this great writer. He talks about the Tenaya Canyon eagle serving as their guardian. The three roped a tree to reduce the number of bolts required. When they were done (they were counting how many raisins they had left, ran out of food, water) Pratt noted the eagle passing below and likened their ascent to that of the bird's shadow sweeping across the face (plus a few bolts). Mike Munger, Steve Larson and I, with help from Rich Perch, did the second route - Hook Line and Sinker - and were proud to have used fewer bolts than on the original line. Largo, Schmitz et al appear to have maintained the tradition on their route, as is expected of these mature gentlemen.
Learn from Pratt, the master. Worship the Tenaya Canyon eagle.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Oh! Angus Thuermer! Welcome aboard, eh?
It's just plain wrong to leave all this junk hanging off of a wall. It must have been a huge disappointment to Caleb and crew to find such a mess. I understand the approach to Watkins is quite epic, and to go to so much work to climb a wall, only to find it in such a condition, must have really sucked.
I think the solution to this problem should be approached this way:
1. Identify the climber[s] who made the mess.
2. Approach him [them] directly and ask them to remove the stuff, and get a commitment to do so and a timeframe.
3. Report that here, and wait and see.
4. If the climber doesn't clean up the wall, THEN approach the sponsors, but if you approach the sponsors, go with all guns blazing.
How would you feel if you gave someone a whole bunch of expensive gear, only to learn that the gift was so trivialized that it was just left hanging to rot? I'd be furious if I were a manufacturer, and would give my ambassador a severe talking-to.
But keep the park service out of it. Jesse is aware, that's plenty. No use irking the Powers That Be.
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David
Trad climber
San Rafael, CA
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re. Ben Wah: "If the garbage offends you, clean it up. But do it without raising a stink,"
Are you fricking kidding me! As if the garabe should not offend someone? Why on earth shoul crackfiend be responsible for cleaning this mess?
What a strange response to the problem. I can't see any reason why the offending parties name should be kept a secret. Especially if sponsor dollars are involved.
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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This kind of news from the climbing world makes me sick. A couple climbers out seeking adventure run into ropes strung up the wall, sh#t strewn across the rock. It seems like climbers gunning for an all free ascent are sometimes forgetting something, a leave no trace ethic that used to be important.
Another thing they are forgetting, working a route is aid. If they are working the route by stringing fixed ropes the whole way they are in essence taking the lowest style of aid to a new level. Does the end justify the means? Is the end goal (a big free route) more important than the path followed to get there? I dont think so but I dont really care what others do as long as what they do does not affect my experience. Unfortunately, many of the big wall "free climbers" (and I use that term loosely) are affecting the experience of others.
While I applaud the gestures of those of you who offer and are serious about cleaning this crap up, I personally would like to take all that trash and confront the ignorant SOB's who left it there. Unfortunately, the climbing rags seem to really get off on the Big Wall Freed articles and seem to forget about the transgressions used to acheive such lofty goals. I think it was the latest CLIMBING that had a letter to the editor of someone complaining about fixed ropes. Their "masto bator" replied that fixed ropes up the whole cliff was acceptable and STFU to the guy complaining. It may have been tongue and cheek but I left that rag on the shelf and promised not to buy another one.
I dont climb as much as I used to. But when I do get to Yos next time, and if there are fixed ropes strung the whole way up the cliff, my knife will be handy. No regrets. I will clean what I can and not turn that sh#t in except to trash. So long as we the climbers dont act this type of activity will be getting worse and worse.
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mark_s
climber
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dirk....you can thank Korean Sean for those ropes and his sh#t f*#k route "sea Horse"
he'll fix all the way to the last 200 feet on that side and probally top out in 2008. until then either chop his ropes, karate chop him, or whatever else.....
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crackfiend
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 1, 2006 - 08:56pm PT
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Thank everyone soooooo much for the response and consolidated effort to clean this mess up... I am in nova scotia canada right now for a wedding and have not checked in lateley.... and to all yes the fixed lines are decent enough to jug.. we actually jugged then for a few pitches as we had a party of three.. no this is not a troll and I have photos to verify if anyone wants to see... well unfortuanatly I do not have time to deal with this BUT I will be in the valey from september 23rd to the 2nd climbing the shield.. if a cleanup goes down I would be willing to sponsor a keg party YES A KEG!!!!!!!!! to give props to those involved... I live in bend and maybe a mirror pond pale ale from deschutes brewery... now that oughta get some takers... hell maybe we could even get a sponsor for the suds.. anyhow thanks everyone for this dialouge and keep it going..
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warpath
Gym climber
Sedona, AZ
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I posted some info on this mt watkins mess last year. It seems like every year someone, or group of people have to go around and pick up after Dean Potter fk-up. Climbing arches, high lines left up, leaving bags and bags of sh#t at the base of half dome, and fixed lines on watkins. I would bet he has tons of st on top of the El Cap.
Just knowing he is the enviormental embassator to patagonia makes me sick. He must make patagonia a lot of money!! The guy is a great climber but has no right to trash yosemite, or any other great climbing area.
Go clean up your own s**t Dean.
Josh
It must be nice to have tons of free gear to leave all over the planet. Commited to the core?????????
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Bump to keep this on the front page, and to hopefully bring some accountability to this issue, and to get the person[s] who put the stuff up there to take it back down.
Until such time as anyone comes forward who KNOWS who the ropes belong to, and they are willing to stand behind their assertion, it might be better not to name names, until such time as this person is contacted.
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warpath
Gym climber
Sedona, AZ
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pete
sorry to name names, but who would mini traxion a grade IV? and has ties to BD & Patagonia? of course no one will take responsibility for this would you
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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I have received third party (garbled message on a cell phone) verification (for what it's worth), that positively identifies the culprits. Apparently they will be retrieving their gear "soon." More as things develop. Sorry about vagueness, no hard facts yet.
Crackfiend, Thanks for your post, and for doing the right thing. It seems to putting things into motion. I apologize again for my earlier skepticism.
-Jerry
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crackfiend
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 4, 2006 - 01:18am PT
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I appreciate the discussion that has taken place since the initial post... I dont know if there is even a need to name any names as long as the route gets cleaned up..
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Mr_T
Trad climber
Somewhere, CA
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It's a week later - is the route clean?
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SuperTopo on the Web
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Let us know!