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MisterE
climber
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Nov 13, 2013 - 03:43pm PT
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Alexey
climber
San Jose, CA
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Nov 13, 2013 - 03:55pm PT
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Are you really questioning CMac's ethics because he deleted some drama queen thread?
Yeah, I AM saying that we have no say in how the site is run.
If you think so , why do you just shut up
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Nov 13, 2013 - 04:02pm PT
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MisterE sorry you're butt hurt after learning your boyfriends are scumbags.
On a more serious note. I think these grants should be handled differently. I'm not really sure how but I'm open to ideas. Judging by some recent emails I've received I think those funding the grants are too. It's funny who's following this thread.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Nov 13, 2013 - 04:14pm PT
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I am a fan of blue collar climbers sending big routes without support.
They have pride in the craft.
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Nov 13, 2013 - 04:17pm PT
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Dave Kos
Social climber
Temecula
Nov 13, 2013 - 01:07pm PT
I can't imagine why a such a classy guy doesn't get more respect.
You do realize that you are whining because people aren't giving their money to you?
I'm not interested In their money. It's too expensive. I've never applied for a grant and most likely never will. I'd rather just pay my own way then deal with their corporate bs
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Nov 13, 2013 - 04:17pm PT
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You do realize that you are whining because people aren't giving their money to you?
Actually, way upthread, the OP stated that their pictures were used without the proper attribution. Perhaps in the end it's about the money, but it also seems to be about misrepresentation. If JK didn't get the grant because someone else got it fairly, then there would be no thread here, I assume.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Nov 13, 2013 - 04:18pm PT
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You do realize that you are whining because people aren't giving their money to you? Comprehend much??? He is whining (I'll 'grant' you that) because his work was taken by someone who deceived him in order to get money from others to fund a first ascent on a route he was planning to do.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Nov 13, 2013 - 04:24pm PT
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Nov 13, 2013 - 01:14pm PT
I am a fan of blue collar climbers sending big routes without support.
They have pride in the craft.
This.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Nov 13, 2013 - 04:30pm PT
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I stand corrected. I acknowledge that I don't have all the facts here
Maybe you should read the thread, and garner the info that is pertinent to the discussion before giving a heavy opinion.
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Deekaid
climber
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Nov 13, 2013 - 04:45pm PT
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I think jumping right to the end of a thread without reading it and making a comment is SOP around here... terms like whining and butt hurt definitely do not promote a conversation
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Nov 13, 2013 - 05:19pm PT
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Back to the "ethics" question. What would be an acceptable code of ethics to follow? What's happened here is slimy to say the least and very easily could have been avoided.
What improvements should be implemented in the application and awarding process? I think applicants who are known to have gained their information/photos through questionable methods should be disqualified for starters.
This is obviously not the case here as the AAC (Copp-Dash) and the Muggs Stump Award committies knew full well what had happened and awarded the grants anyway. Pretty "slimy" on their part.
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AKDOG
Mountain climber
Anchorage, AK
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Nov 13, 2013 - 06:01pm PT
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I think it is a BS your friends used your photos and information to get their grants. But the grant givers have no responsibility to protect someone’s private projects or too ensure that your partners don’t bail on you, IMO. The mountains belong to everyone and always should be first come first served. Use of your photo without your permission on anything published is another issue altogether.
Some of the grants that go out now days appear somewhat bogus, to an old fart like me, not sure why we need them. The ACC gave a “live your dream grant” to guy up in AK, to go bouldering, WTF?
Or many like the following:
$400: XXX—XX and his climbing partner YY have locked in their objective to climb in traditional fashion the South Face of the Washington Column linked with the South Face of the North Dome as well as the Nutcracker route located in Yosemite National Park. Between his studies and dissertations as a Ph.D. candidate studying Education at the University of Tennessee, Knoxville, XX spends more time dreaming of climbing a big wall in Yosemite than he cares to anymore. With he and his partner’s experience mounting, they are ready for their Yosemite big wall dream!
This tread will probably soon be nuked
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Nov 13, 2013 - 06:24pm PT
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I think it is a BS your friends used your photos and information to get their grants.
Not only that, but he totally ditched him on the climb that OP proposed.
From what I understand:
1) Kelly (OP) proposed a climb to John Frieh. JF asked for photos and beta about the line. Than said he is not sure if he can commit to it because of family and that he will contact Kelly in January. Kelly asked him to keep the photos and beta to himself to which Freih agreed.
2)Than instead of keeping beta and photos to himself, as Kelly asked, Freih applied for several grants with different people. In addition to dumping Kelly from his own proposition, John Frieh used Kelly’s photos and knowledge to gain grants from several sources.
3)When JF went to his sponsored expedition he did not even make an attempt at a proposed face, and than applied and got the same grant a year later.
4)Kelly contacted Polartech and AAC to let them know what happened and got ignored by AAC, but got $200 from Polartech because they used his photo without his permission.
Am I getting the story right? If so, this is really messed up!
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Dolomite
climber
Anchorage
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Nov 13, 2013 - 06:32pm PT
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Like I wondered about upthread: the other original thread got banned, but why hasn't this one? It would be useful to know, I think, though I realize it's C Mac's business and he can call it as he sees it.
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cheamster
Trad climber
Vancouver
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Nov 13, 2013 - 06:36pm PT
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you forgot
5)He is clearly a witch, burn him!
There are usually two sides to every story. As well it seems to be standard practice to grab the pitchforks and form an internet posse and do some lynch'n.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdAOi-DE9NI
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Nov 13, 2013 - 06:37pm PT
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Some of the grants that go out now days appear somewhat bogus, to an old fart like me, not sure why we need them.
Seriously? It is a genius marketing move. The AAC is trying to promote the club, and grants like “Live Your Dream” is a great way to show future members that the club cares to support all members. It shows that the club encourages people of all levels to get out to the mountains, crags or boulder fields and go for the goals that they are psyched about.
Of course these grants are not perfect, and at times the goal sound a little silly in their description. Much could be improved, I won’t argue. But the idea is really good. Improving access, rescue insurance, free library, local events and grants. Exactly what the club should be doing. I am a pretty big fan of what they been doing.
Like I wondered about upthread: the other original thread got banned, but why hasn't this one?
Maybe because private emails were posted in the other one, and this one has been pretty calm and civil? Just a guess.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Nov 13, 2013 - 06:39pm PT
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Like I wondered about upthread: the other original thread got banned, but why hasn't this one? It would be useful to know, I think, though I realize it's C Mac's business and he can call it as he sees it. This thread doesn't include email conversations verbatim as well as private individuals email addresses
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Dolomite
climber
Anchorage
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Nov 13, 2013 - 06:42pm PT
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Thanks, man, I get it.
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Nov 13, 2013 - 06:56pm PT
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Vitality you got the chain of events down correctly. The only thing you missed was I was also "blown off" by the Muggs Stump Committe, Michael Kennedy to be exact, as well
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