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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Oct 21, 2013 - 02:27pm PT
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It kind of feels like a lot of people didn't even read the apology...
They just skimmed it for anything and everything that gave them that sweet, sweet feeling of outrage... it is the Merkin way.
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LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
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Oct 21, 2013 - 02:30pm PT
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read the so identified "apology"
it's self advertising aimed at his sponsors
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Oct 21, 2013 - 02:33pm PT
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Ron, when did Joe say "I didnt cut any trees?"
And how many times are you going to tell us exactly how you would have written that ticket?
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TheTye
Trad climber
Sacramento CA
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Oct 21, 2013 - 02:42pm PT
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I just read his blog apology...
It is very telling (about our modern on-line society) to read what is obviously a heart felt statement of remorse and will to make up for it... and then scroll down to the first comment and see "you blew it... I hate you for what you have done"
I have no reason to want good or bad for him... but I'm a human being and don't want to inflict damage and pain onto others. I think that is a pretty common feeling but here on the internet there is no forgiveness... not even in the face of heartfelt remorse.
If the angriest of the posters lived with the penance of their own sins according to the way they hatefully post then they would probably be rotting away somewhere in a self-imposed prison somewhere... but we forgive ourselves pretty quick...
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Oct 21, 2013 - 02:51pm PT
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If the angriest of the posters lived with the penance of their own sins according to the way they hatefully post then they would probably be rotting away somewhere in a self-imposed prison somewhere... but we forgive ourselves pretty quick...
I agree that internet posters -- particularly when cloaked with anonymity -- can express a terrible, sanctimonious, lack of forgiveness. I disagree, however, that we so easily forgive ourselves. I know way too many climbers that live with tremendous tension caused by the demons of their past, and an inability to forgive themselves.
John
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Oct 21, 2013 - 02:53pm PT
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They just skimmed it for anything and everything that gave them that sweet, sweet feeling of outrage... it is the Merkin way.
I read ever word of it, it was non sufficient because it's the community and sponsors as a whole that needs to apologize while kicking this guy out. They let someone like this represent it in the 1st place.
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Oct 21, 2013 - 02:56pm PT
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If the angriest of the posters lived with the penance of their own sins according to the way they hatefully post then they would probably be rotting away somewhere in a self-imposed prison somewhere... but we forgive ourselves pretty quick...
How do you know they don't?
Take your own advice and worry about yourself.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Oct 21, 2013 - 02:57pm PT
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His mea culpa was indeed torn apart. Likely because of the cynicisim engendered by the apologies of politicians and other prominent people. Apologies that so obviously are made only because they got CAUGHT.
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splitclimber
climber
Sonoma County
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Oct 21, 2013 - 02:59pm PT
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glad the initial thread is done. EP's name doesn't need to be involved.
typical ST lynch mob in action. I feel icky.
happy that Joe is now taking responsibility for his actions.
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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
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Oct 21, 2013 - 03:00pm PT
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I just read his blog apology...
It is very telling (about our modern on-line society) to read what is obviously a heart felt statement of remorse and will to make up for it... and then scroll down to the first comment and see "you blew it... I hate you for what you have done"
I guess the bolded part is where you and I would disagree. When I read his apology I saw narcissism, spray, 1/2 truths, omissions and lies. I find it hard to forgive a person that is still lying to my face.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Oct 21, 2013 - 03:02pm PT
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Lezarian...I'm rotting.. away...RJ
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Oct 21, 2013 - 03:04pm PT
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Yes, we have all done stupid things. Yes, forgiveness and understanding are great things. So is being held accountable.
Joe's apology is filled with spray and 1/2 truths. It reminds me of political statements, corporate earnings presentations and marketing BS. I don't get the impression that he is genuinely sorry, just sorry he got caught. In his blog post he fails to talk about how he initially lied about his involvement. He also says that he had no clue that his actions were wrong. He seriously expects us to think that he did not know that cutting down a live tree was wrong? I call BS.
Joe is fortunate enough to spend the majority of his life in the outdoors. He visits wild and amazing places on a regular basis and has done so for years. IMHO there is NO WAY he did not know that the tree was alive and that cutting it down was wrong. With that in mind, he flat out lied in his "apology." That tells me a lot about his character. Personally, I find it hard to forgive someone that doesn't even honestly admit their guilt.
I have written to all of his sponsors. I hope that others will take the time to do the same. The cutting of the trees was deplorable on a number of different levels. The attempt to "cover-up" what happened and the lies after the fact show that Joe is not truly remorseful. As a sponsored athlete, Joe lives off the good-will of the climbing community and tacitly makes the claim that he represent "the best" that the climbing world has to offer. His actions (cutting down the tree and his behavior after the fact) show that this is not the case. If we as a community allow this to pass without comment, then we are giving this behavior our stamp of approval.
If Joe turned himself in to the relevant authorities, paid a fine and voluntarily did community service, it would show that he takes responsibility for his actions and is willing to step-up to make it right. He would gain my forgiveness and my respect. He could turn a negative into a positive, and make a bold, positive statement. However, at this time he has done none of those things and I doubt that he will. He heavily moderates his blog and FB account and has deleted my questions regarding his actions and future community service. I could be 100% wrong, but my guess is that as soon as this thread and the discussion on social media stops, Joe will go back to business as usual.
Contrary to some posters, I do not see this thread as a witch hunt. In my opinion this thread is a constructive tool that allows members of the community to express our outrage over a climber's destructive and narcissistic behavior. I want to see this thread continue and see other climbers write to Joe and his sponsors. Joe needs to be held accountable.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Oct 21, 2013 - 03:05pm PT
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Thanks onewhoisnotaflatlander... I missed that episode of the soap. Very lame indeed.
...it's the community as a whole that needs to apologize, for letting someone like this represent it in the 1st place.
I don't recall ever letting them represent me or my community. They get sponsored to promote brand name gear. That has nothing to do with me or my community. Lance Armstrong never represented me (or my community) even though I've been riding a bike for decades.
I find it hard to forgive a person that is still lying to my face.
To your face? You do realize words posted on the intardweb are incapable of accurately conveying the level of emotion and sincerity that a conversation (to your face) does, right?
I can't help think about the story of tampons being found behind rocks in the Happy Boulders.
I ran to the top of a boulder in Fontainebleau to scope holds on the problem I was trying. I slipped on what I thought was a leaf... turned out to be one of about a dozen condoms left by the truckers/prostitutes that hang out on the N7.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Oct 21, 2013 - 03:11pm PT
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The leave no trace ethic of the 90s has been lost.
And we are all angry because we feel it but can't really do anything about it.
That ethic has been around for many decades. My Boy Scout Handbook, circa 1961, espoused it, however imperfectly. I was taught it in "Junior Rangers" in Yosemite Valley in the 1950's. The ethic was always there, but the number of people using the mountains in the U.S. has grown dramatically, making the execution of that ethic far more crucial.
John
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Oct 21, 2013 - 03:12pm PT
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Red Bull makes tampons..?
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Oct 21, 2013 - 03:15pm PT
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Slimming... it's not just for Vodka anymore.
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splitter
Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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Oct 21, 2013 - 03:19pm PT
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this is right up there with the f*#king idiots that toppled the rock formation. maybe worse, an 'we are so important that...' kind of thing. severely lame mentality issues.
btw, i haven't read any of this thread except a few of the posts on the first page and don't really give a sh#t what y'all think. so KMFA (kiss my fookin' ass). lame rock gods gone wild. lol
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Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
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Oct 21, 2013 - 03:27pm PT
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So should the punishment be greater than the ignorant redneck that chops a juniper down for firewood? Or comparable to the dumb asses that pushed over the Goblin Valley lump of cool choss.
We need more enforcement.
All sorts of new job creation in the form of armed LEO's and government prosecutors. Hollywood can create the new hit series CSI , Tree Cops.
Nahhh..... go with a gold ol' fashioned lynch mob. Yeah, that will fix it.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Oct 21, 2013 - 03:39pm PT
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Justice is supposed to be blind. The official punishment is set by our justice system and should be the same for rednecks and scouts and climbers. From what I understand, Joe is seeking opportunities to make things right above and beyond any fines/mandatory community service... time will tell.
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