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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Oct 28, 2013 - 02:46pm PT
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By the end of college, I'd had two girlfriends for about 2 years each, and in reflecting on the ends of those relationships, I had decided that any two people could make it work if they just committed and tried hard enough. The next girl I dated, we moved in together after a few months and were married in less than a year. The degree of warning signs and red flags present even in the first few weeks were almost comical, but that is a measure of my emotional maturity at the time. It took me a little more than a decade in marriage to learn that my idea about "any two people can make it work" is total bullsh!t. Total. Bullshat.
On the one hand, I grieve the 11 years where I betrayed myself and I stayed in a very difficult marriage. On the other hand, I cherish the emotional growth which that encouraged me to pursue. I might never have learned to understand and articulate and share my feelings, and I might never have dealt with childhood crap in such a thorough way, if my daily life had not been so uncomfortable. If I had been with a mild-mannered person, I might have limped along my entire life as an emotional cripple and been satisfied with just getting through each day.
It takes time to sort out who you are, what you want, what's important to you in a mate, how to behave in a relationship, when to be patient versus when to draw a line, and how to communicate all this stuff in a way that is respectful of the other person and yourself.
And underpinning these activities is a serious emotional struggle that can be difficult to put in words. Learning to love yourself, that you are worthy of love, that you don't have to suffer and struggle to earn love. That you have a right to be alive. That you have a right to be happy and joyful. That you are worthy of acceptance and belonging and that you don't need to hurt yourself trying to be something you are not to get the approval of someone else. Everyone has their own story and what issues strike closer to home for them, but in my reflections it seems that many people's issues, if you keep peeling back layers, come down to these issues. It's ironic that many people dismiss these ideas and topics as sissy mushy weakness, when in fact facing and dealing with these things is much harder than most "macho" rights of passage. I wonder how many people have placed themselves in harm's way and died or gravely injured themselves rather than risk losing acceptance or love? Or face the fact that other emotionally crippled people aren't ready to give it to them?
And suppose you are with a person you believe is your ideal mate, but they walk away? Well, it wasn't working for them. You weren't able to give them what they needed, or they weren't ready to articulate what they needed, or... hey, if you love yourself, move on and find someone else who is at the right place in their lives to receive the love you have to give, and who is ready to give you love too. You're worth it.
If you can't find love and acceptance for yourself, can't forgive yourself and learn from whatever mistakes you've made, you can spend your life in fruitless relationships and fruitless pursuits and nothing will ever be enough to fill those holes.
This is the symphony behind so many failed and failing relationships. And how is a teen or a young twenty-something from an emotionally dysfunctional home supposed to unravel and divine all these things and navigate their way to a healthy relationship? What is that quote about wisdom and experience and screwing up?
In a healthy relationship, both parties are able and willing to walk away. That doesn't mean you leave at the slightest provocation and are an unreliable partner. That means you will not be stuck in a relationship that hurts you. And your partner knows it, and you know the same about your partner. You can enforce that the relationship is good for all participants. Everyone knows that if they don't honor their commitments, you won't stick around anyways out of fear of being alone or "for the kids" or whatever other rationalizations that lead to more pain and suffering. Being willing to leave means that all parties know where they stand, that they are present of their own choice and toxic guilt-trips can be left by the wayside. All parties take responsibility for their actions and do what it takes to make a relationship work or face the fact that it's not working and move on to create more possibility for happiness.
Sure there are other possible ways to lead life. I choose these ideals because I've spent enough time suffering, I've spent enough time trying to look happy when I'm not really happy, and actually being happy is a much better use of my precious time on earth. And these are the lessons I want my children to learn.
I had to learn these lessons and reach these conclusions on my own before I was ready to find a heart/mind/body/soul mate. We have been together for 5.5 years, and it is still bliss. And it is also a deep, quiet, contentedness. It's the way life should be.
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Leggs
Sport climber
Tucson, AZ
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Oct 28, 2013 - 03:04pm PT
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NutAgain ... that was excellent... just excellent.
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Lambone
Big Wall climber
Ashland, Or
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Oct 28, 2013 - 04:12pm PT
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That numb feeling with ice water flowing through your veins. That horrific tossed aside feeling.
pretty much :(
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Oct 28, 2013 - 04:16pm PT
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I once read that marriage doesn't solve any problems..Yeah i know..profound..
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Climber Joe
Trad climber
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Oct 28, 2013 - 04:31pm PT
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Painful but worth it without question. Like chopping off a hand to be free and live. I could have copied and pasted NutAgain's post and it would have been true for me.
Life is short. Kids (if you got any) are precious. Enjoy your time here. Climb.
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Leggs
Sport climber
Tucson, AZ
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Oct 28, 2013 - 04:51pm PT
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Also enjoy being on your own after divorce. Some of us are content alone. You don't have to be a pair to have significance. Some of us are Thoreau, perfectly content at Walden.
I love it, Sullly. ~
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10b4me
Ice climber
Bishop/Flagstaff
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Oct 28, 2013 - 05:08pm PT
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Some of us are content alone. imo, that's true if you lead an active lifestyle, and are relative young.
I think that changes when you are in your 70s, and 80s. Especially, if you don't have anyone to support you.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Oct 28, 2013 - 05:13pm PT
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I only thought of my ending sentence "as it should be" within the realm of the life I want for myself. I'm sure many people find their ultimate happy life without having a partner, and I've known people who are happy in polyamorous relationships too. Whatever floats your boat and makes you feel like you are living the life you were born to live :)
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Oct 28, 2013 - 06:07pm PT
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For most of mankind's history, marriage was just a non-religious civil union - a contract between two or more people.
During the Medieval period the ceremony was hijacked by the church. Now every bone-headed Christian believes that marriage is - and always has been - some sacred religious ceremony. Bullsh#t.
Back to the OP's question:
Q: Do you know why divorce is so expensive?
A: Because it's worth it!
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Lambone
Big Wall climber
Ashland, Or
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Oct 30, 2013 - 01:20am PT
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Day 5 on my friends couch. Yesterday was my birthday and she didn't even wish me one on FB. Seen my toddlers for 20 minutes...
I'm f*#ked
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Oct 30, 2013 - 01:29am PT
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Day 5 on my friends couch. Yesterday was my birthday and she didn't even wish me one on FB. Seen my toddlers for 20 minutes...
As one who was kicked to the curb last year after 18 years, I can relate. Hang in there, it does get better.
Curt
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nita
Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
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Oct 30, 2013 - 01:33am PT
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Lambone,...damn, i'm so sorry ... )-;
Wishing you better days ..
take care...
best wishes to you ..
and wilbeer...
sending a hug ..
nita.
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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Oct 30, 2013 - 09:17am PT
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Hang in there Lambone and Wilbeer too. There is life after divorce, it will seem unimaginable things could improve when your going though it. The kids add significantly to the heartache, it breaks your spirit but it won't kill it.
What you are experiencing is a process of loss and it can be profound. Years ago I thought I was dying and that it was the worse thing that had or could have happened to me, with two small kids, a business, a house and all the other stuff.. The most amazing personal journey was as it turned out it became the best thing ever to happen to me. I won't go into any of the ugly and beautiful detail other than to say that adversity and hardship is also a door, you will move through it and there will be light in what now looks like a dark room.
You feel the loss of power but I can tell you it's still there for you. You'll find it when you are ready, use it to grow far beyond where you are today. It's a tough road but one that will lead you to a better place. Live well (avoid the dark side), keep loving much and let it go. You can live more fully than you ever have by making good choices as you move forward.
Best to you,
Charlie D.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Oct 30, 2013 - 09:28am PT
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Yeah...Get back in there bro...Your kids need you and moving out like that comes under the 9/10ths posession of the law category.. and keep your chin up..!
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 30, 2013 - 10:42am PT
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Day 5 on my friends couch.
I thought climbers are tough and know the art of bivy ........
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Oct 30, 2013 - 03:18pm PT
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Lambone, if access to your kids is an issue, and ex is non-cooperative, DO NOT let it go for a long time trying to work it out amicably. Don't mess around with mediation if you think your ex is basically not receptive to it or just stalling. That establishes a "status quo" of you not being as engaged with the children and works against you having more access in the future.
It's better to face the fight now, get something reasonable in place, then over time you can patch up the co-parenting relationship when your rights are preserved and the kids will have more of a chance to have a relationship with you.
In California, you would have to file a FL-300 to get a request for hearing to establish a child custody order. I'm not sure what the equivalent would be in Oregon.
If you want more access to your kids and don't have it now, time is against you. This is the time to buck up and get done what needs to get done. Good luck.
EDIT: Also be VERY careful about not giving your ex any reason to withhold the kids from you. Be careful of any altercation with her in which she can claim that she was scared, you are abusive, etc. That will work very much against you, regardless of how much truth is in her claims. If she refuses to let you see the kids, don't try to force it. Send an email, document your requests and her actions, and hire a lawyer.
EDIT EDIT: +1 to Charlie D's comments. That's the spiritually good side of things, which will keep you afloat. But taking action now is also important if your ex is inclined to not support the kids' relationship with you.
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Daphne
Trad climber
Northern California
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Oct 30, 2013 - 03:55pm PT
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What Nutagain, said, plus, no matter how you are pushed, don't become nasty via email or text as this will be used against you. If you can't sound reasonable and adult, don't respond in type.
I've been a friend witnessing a horrible co-parenting relationship for 4 years now. Basically, due to a stray sperm, two people who dated for 4 months are inextricably bound to each other for a lifetime. And each can be held financially responsible (end up supporting the other partner) if one decided to just stop working.
Your kids really, really need you when the relationship is tanking. Do everything you can to see them and do everything you can to show them you are a stable, loving presence for them, even if you have to fake this.
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BrassNuts
Trad climber
Save your a_s, reach for the brass...
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Oct 30, 2013 - 06:29pm PT
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Charlie D. - very well spoken and true in my past experience. Nice post.
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Lambone
Big Wall climber
Ashland, Or
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Oct 31, 2013 - 12:16am PT
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I appreciate the advice you guys.
She's been up front about wanting to give me full access to the kids for my sake and theirs. She's asked me everyday if I want to see them and I saw them today. For me it was more of a personal struggle dealing with the shock and pain, and not wanting to go back and look her in the eye. But I realized that my being weak was hurting them so I sucked it up and went back. And wouldn't ya know it, hugs and love from those kids was the best therapy I could hope for.
I hear y'all saying "get back in the castle," trust me, I intend to. But forcing it now would end bad. The whole thing would implode and it would get ugly quick. She says she needs space to work on being happy again. I can give it to her. I mean she could be saying "I'm in love with someone else," or "I can never forgive you." But she's not. She's saying we need real change to move forward and both be happy. And in a lot of ways she's right. Although I think we could have accomplished that via other means then seperation. But she felt she had to take a stand. I have nothing bad to say about her and will not talk trash. She's a good woman. I take responsibility for the position we are in as a result of my f*#kups and poor choices and lack of attention to her needs.
I'm fighting for not ending up divorced here folks. I want a better life for our kids and believe we still after 15 years love eachother. Everyone says it will work out like its supposed to and that I'll be happy either way. I believe that. But I want our life back.
The pain of being shunned from home over the last week has been tough. The empty feeling of having nowhere to be and no one to come home to is something that I've never experienced. But I'll get through it. From here on out I will offer nothing but love and kindness. If she turns it down, that's her loss I guess. And her kids loss.
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